AI Founders Podcast

Hey everyone, and welcome to another episode of the SAS Universe Podcast today. Joseph Abraham, CEO and founder of SAS industry and Uber Saga, has a one-on-one with Andrew Foreman who is the CEO and Co. Founder of gifts and e-commerce marketing platform. The gross sales creates social impact and reduces discount dependency. Gives helps Shopify merchants use donation. Incentives versus discounts. All so that you can take a detox from the discount drug. Sit back and listen as Joseph dives into the mechanics of what gives does as well as have an in-depth conversation with Andrew on the Genesis and future of Gibbs. Enjoy the show as they take a revised look at how SAS Incentivize SaaS.

Hi Andrew, thank you so much for taking the time and joining. Us today on our podcast it's. To have you and I've been looking. You know a little bit into your background and what you've been doing, so nice to. Know that you've been. In this field, but in a whole different. You know, from a different vantage point altogether, I'd be being in the not-for-profit, and then you know in the investment space and now again back to give. So I mean. Welcome to the. Show first of all, and if you can, just take us through a little bit about what gives us who is. It for and. Give us a quick introduction about about yourself as well.

Yeah, absolutely. As as you said I had in my prior life I I separated out the good and the making money side of things and now I've tried to bring them together and so I think that's a good backdrop in terms of what it is we actually do here at gives now which is.

Right?

We help brands move away from discounts and simultaneously. We've been social impact, so we see. Two, those those as two. Huge trends for for brands and we'll. I'm sure we'll dive into the details. But if a brand wants to lift their average order value, they could say hey, if you spend over a certain amount, you're going to get a discount. What we found to be even more effective and way less damaging to brand to the brands overall in the long term is something like spend over $100, get $10 to give to any charity that you want, and so the individual. Is rubbed into the. You know to our customers the brand's mission, right? Because now the customer is saying, like hey, I can donate to whatever I care about free like you're not asking me to add money to my purchase or anything like that.

Got it.

It's like, Nope, if you spend over $100 with us, you get 10 bucks to get to any charity you want, and those numbers are obviously changeable, etcetera etcetera, but that's the the. Core of of what we're doing with Gibbs now.

Awesome, so we get to hear a lot about mission driven brands right? So I mean that that's. Like a buzzword. Today, yes, So what do you feel as as a I mean as a company powering this, so is it. Is it abuse? At this point of. Time or is? It is it like the safe.

I think what you're finding is that it's necessary, right? Like that's why everybody says they're right.

Got it.

It's like it's it's table stakes it is. It is becoming. Table stakes and a year from now every single brand will be a mission you know powered brand because they have to be because people want to buy from that right?

Right?

That's what comes down to. It's not because people are. All of a sudden. So good, although I do think that. There is a trend for people you know caring more about whatever it is they care about now more than ever and and just thinking about society as a whole and you know, with social media and and facts getting moved around so quickly and fake news getting moved around so quickly. People you know something hits you and you care about it, right? And you latch onto it and you say OK. This is something that I'm actually passionate about and you can find that passion a lot. For these days and and also when you're a lot younger and and so the younger generations have started this movement, the older generations are kind of latching on to it now and and, and we're finding that yeah, if you're brand and you have no social mission whatsoever, you're going to be out of business in five years. That's just that's just a fact. So you have to. You have to play the game. And so some people do it better than others, and we're trying to help the folks that are doing it well already do it even better and and really loop in their customers and and. And quite frankly the easiest. You know customer on my hand is somebody who doesn't have a program right now at all. They're definitely trying to figure it out and then it's like, OK, well here you go and and and obviously I'm biased, but I feel like this is the best way to do it anyway. So you go from having nothing to having the best program in place which is doing it through doing your give back through your customers. What doesn't get any better than that? To be able to tell your customers like hey, we genuinely care about what you care about and we're going to prove it to you by giving you the power to donate to whatever you want.

Got it absolutely makes sense. So how did how did it all start? So let's go get to the basics and the genesis of it, right? So yeah. Take us to the.

Yeah, so I.

Whole origin story.

The whole origin story, so I guess and and now to be fair, you did say stories are interesting, so I'll go off tangent a little bit here and and talk about when I was, you know, just to give you a little bit about ethos on my end. So in high school had a I had a high school girlfriend. You know we were. We were great. We only thought about one thing, which was how do you have more impact in the world? So we were maybe maybe we should have been Gen Z years instead of millennials. But this is what? We were arguing about and we were and and and she was up the.

Right?

You know the opinion that you go, you graduate college and you go volunteer in the Peace Corps. Right, and that's how you're gonna have the most impact boots on the ground. Doing something changing peoples lives right away. I said, you know, hey, I think you go you graduate college. You make as much money as humanly possible. And you fund the Peace Corps. Cause how else are they gonna get you over there and you? Can't volunteer if you don't have the funds. Thing, and so this was this is what we argued about. Obviously we were 16 or 17 and we're not going to solve these these big problems. You obviously need both sides of this coin. Now that we look back decades later and say like, OK, yes you need to do both of these things. But I just say that because you know what ended up happening. Was she graduates college? She goes and volunteers in the Peace Corps. I graduate college. I go right into investment banking to try to make as much. Money as possible.

Right?

I quickly realized that. That I was not going to make enough money to fund these things, but I just say that because you know what ended up happening was she graduated college?

Right?

She goes and volunteers in the Peace Corps I Graduate college. I go right into investment banking to try to make as much money as possible. I quickly realized that I was not going to make enough money to fund the Peace Corps. Or anything like that when I graduated college. And and so in that. From that sense she was definitely right and and just to close the loop there she went to Peace Corps. I went into investment banking. We never spoke again, but I'm sure all is well on on on that front but but for me I immediately was like OK I need some more purpose in my life. If I'm going to work these long hours in the investment banking world and so I started a nonprofit with two other folks. And we ran that nonprofit for five years, which was fantastic, but it was two totally separate lives, right? Like I was doing nights and weekends. And like really late nights and and and some weekends on the on the nonprofit side of things. But most of my time was taken up. You know, paying the bills and and and trying to make money that I could donate. Essentially, but you know also just live and. So that was the. That was my life for 5-6 years. I went back to Business School. I I go I went to HBS and I graduated from HBS with them asking you over and over again. What are you going to do with this one and precious life? And so I always wanted to combine those two and not keep them separate and so. Yeah, I had in my investment banking days I had the pleasure of working with an amazing company. That that was was able to combine those two things. It was the most profitable company that I had ever seen, and they were literally saving lives. And and I just felt like man, if I could do something like that if I could link my business to having amazing things done that help in the world. That would be awesome. And so when I when we launched we actually launched it as a. I launched gives us a Venmo for charity platform, hoping that I could take the ease out of, you know, the the pain out of donating and and the the actual financial friction of having to type in your credit card over and over again, et cetera. Et cetera. And that was the initial piece, but now you know I'm that was a tough business. Direct consumer and we pivoted. Happy to talk more about that as well, but we pivoted into what we do now and this is what we were supposed to be doing and and you can only recognize it after after you pivot. So this was this has been an exciting turn of events here in the past year and a half two years.

Awesome, so take us through a little bit about. I mean, what do you? Look for validation. So I mean different people look for different. Things right? So product market fit is is what you define in and end of the day. What you do if it gains traction or a period of time. Of course you you make good business so. What is what is? The factor that determined that you had to make the pivot and you're on the. Right course.

Yeah so. What determined traction? I think for us it was so the way we made the pivot was data-driven, right? We had two brands, two separate brands, run AB tests on two separate platform, so one brand ran an AB test on Facebook. The other brand ran AB test on e-mail and this was we still. They only had the Venmo for charity platform, so the the the one on Facebook said you know buy now and will give you $30.00 to give to a charity of your choice. That was the the A test. The B test was by now will give you $50.00 off. So that was what they they tested. The e-mail was a similar type of thing, used coupon code ABC for $40.00 off. Use coupon code XYZ for $40 to get to a charity of your choice and we saw in both cases 18 to 20% lift in conversion when you use the donation incentive over a discount.

Oh wow.

And I. Was like holy. Smokes that was the aha moment for me where I was like. This is something that if we could recreate these results. I mean two was enough for me. That was it. I was like, OK, I'm good. We're pivoting. This whole business had to go back, tell the whole team we're pivoting the whole business.

Got it.

It was wild wild time.

Right?

But now what I think means traction for us is we've now got 75 brands that use this and we have no churn. I think the the biggest thing that that brands look at is like churn, right? So when somebody tries it out, do they try it and then you have this leaky bucket problem? We do not have that leaky bucket problem. But but every business has its challenges, and so I think for us we have. We have figured out that. Product fit, but when you talk about product market fit now you're talking about. Have you figured out the flywheel and and your go to market strategy? And that's something for us where we're creating a new market. Is very very difficult.

Got it awesome, so I think you kind of have a bit of prediction going on as well with me because you preempted my question at a question. Like how to build a SaaS business as churn proof. So you just told my question my moment right? So it's OK, it's fine but yeah, I mean it's good to to know about like the factors that determine your pivot now. Quickly take us through. Your first 10 customers, I mean, how do you cross the chasm? Mean, I mean, how did you get them?

Yeah, that's that's a really, really good question, so we had the two pilots were incredibly helpful in terms of having the actual data to support what we were doing that this was working and people were like, wait, what like you outperformed the discount. But then the 1st 10 customers. I will say. All came from referrals. Friend of a friend somewhere, but I don't think we would have been able to get those referrals without the data from those first two tests.

Got it.

And and honestly the the 1st 2. Yes, one was an introduction from my wife. Always have to support, you know, when, when family, when family supports you and then the second one was somebody I had sat on the board of on the Associate board of a charity with and so through the charity work.

Right?

She was working NPR. At at a. At one of these companies and she's like, yeah, this sounds amazing. Like let's try it out. And so it was, you know, it was a friendly relationship. Yep, that that we made that we made happen and then from there it was a. It was a no brainer. So then then we got a bunch of, you know, emailed all my friends and family and said, hey, if you know anybody who's willing to try this, we're gonna build a product around it. And so we got those first 10 customers. 10 is exactly right in terms of like all referral based. Honestly, my wife helped a ton. She's in venture capital and so she had a bunch of portfolio companies that she just shot this to and they. Were like Yep, let's. Try it, the results were great. We still have all ten of those companies. Obviously with the with the no churn and we built a Shopify app around this to make it easy. We found that nine out of those 10 stores were were on Shopify, so we built the Shopify app and launched that in August of last year and and since then it's really been those ten clients now telling their other folks, you know their the the marketing person is in the CMO. Group and talks about it, or the founder is in, you know a a founder group and talks about gives and and and. Their give back. Piece we're we're just now starting to see. You know folks that shopped at one. Of our clients. Had the gives experience saw that it was powered by gives and said hey, you know this is this is something that we want to that we want to implement as well. So can you help us?

Awesome, and I mean just just to go back about this whole product. So who is it for? I mean is is this? Only for E. Commerce or is this for for brands? Across the spectrum. If you can just quickly take. Us through you know who's this? Product for what does it really? Do I mean just a little bit of future?

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If you can just quickly take. Us through you know who is? This product for what does? It really do, I mean just. A little bit of future. Benefit yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. So the on the Shopify side it is. It is definitely focused on e-commerce brands, right? But it ends up this is this is a marketers dream. Regardless of if you're an E com store, if if you are a direct consumer. If you're marketing anything direct to consumer then gives is is is for you right?

Right?

Because you have to come up with. To e-mail your consumers or your potential consumers every single day, right and you have to have a touch point, you have to have a reason to talk to them and so one of those reasons that's high converting is a discount. But right now we see that everybody's like, you know, if you're the marketing person, you're the CEO is saying, please don't become over reliant on discounts. Please try to move. Away from discounts you're like OK, but this is the only thing that converts right now. What else can I do and so? So we're we're coming in and and and marketers are so excited to try this out. And then they're really excited when the results come in because they're, like, wait, I can move away from this counts.

Right?

I can weave in social impact in a genuine and authentic way, but we've had everything from a restaurant on the upper on the Upper West Side here in New York. Who's selling more Bao buns of the month? And he knows what to do with because he said, you know, if you buy the backbone of the month, you get $5 to give to a. Charity of your choice. We have a a financial institution in in Betterment who actually just tried this out and and saw great results and now is planning further further tests. So, so they and and just roll this out in a bigger way so they are are seeing you know something as like deposit money into your account. Get X dollars to give to a charity of your choice. The most recent testing around on Earth Day, and so it is really for anybody marketing anything and you want them. You want the consumer to do something. Our technology can actually port over to. We've had brands say post on Instagram or give us a review and get money to give to charity so we can go a whole bunch of different ways. What we found the best practice. The down the center of the fairway no brainer is to start with something like hey, if your average order value is $38 than say spend 50 or more, get five percent 10% to give to a charity of your choice. If your average order value is $72, then say hey, spend over $80.00 or $90.00 or 100. Dollars and get 500 sent to give you a chair.

Right?

Right, that's the. That's the Evergreen offer that you can stand on. But then when it comes to Black Friday Cyber Monday, don't do a 40% off discount. Once somebody buys something at 40% off from your store, they are never ever ever buying full price from you again ever? That is that there's no way. So so. You have to do something more innovative and interesting and say, hey, you know we're not a deep discount brand, but we want to do something so we're going to give you 20% off plus 20% to give to a charity of your choice, right? And that's not a 40% discount. Super importantly, I think once you cross that 20%. Discount people are. Like, well, this is a discount brand, right? So, so that's that's just a little insight into into what we're does that answer to.

The question absolutely yes. So talk us through your team and how did you guys come together? So like who are the people behind this and what's your team size right now and. And are you still hunting for people, and if so, what? Do you look for?

Yeah, great great. Question so I I think you know. As a as a. First time entrepreneur. I read a ton about how much the people matter, right? And and as much as I thought I understood that you cannot possibly understand that. Until you start to build a business yourself, the people are everything and so when investors are always saying, oh, we bet on. Teams you know. You know the idea of the the the Tam has to be large, but we're ultimately betting on the team because that is what's going to drive this thing. I always thought like, OK, sure, yeah, I I sort of believe you, but I don't really believe you now. I believe it I've I have. I have seen it and I have. I've lived it and so. The the team is now 7 seven folks. Where yeah, it's it's exciting on on that side. Things, but I'd say talk about the the the three Co founders for myself. My original co-founder Jay, who I've known forever so they say don't work. With your friends.

It's not.

So that was that was something that I that that we buffed and I think. That it it. Really depends on the relationship that you have. With with that friend, but he's an amazing person and an absolute soldier and will get anything done that needs to get done. And so I think we both had that kind of mentality and so we started it both as non-technical and so you can guess who the third co-founder is on the on the technical side and how important.

Oh yeah.

A technical co-founder is is cannot cannot be understated as well. That was one of the prerequisites to us raising our our our most. Our latest round was that we had to have a Co founding CTO, otherwise this was not an investable business and I didn't realize it again. I was like kind of like. OK maybe if our idea was better they wouldn't. No, they they understood. They've seen it a million times and and and when we so Eric, who's our our Co founding CTO? Had actually run two businesses before startups and I think having startup experience is important as well, but he ran a company called Ever True from start to Series B where he that that was actually a SAS business aimed at charities. So charities used their software and then he ran. AE commerce business so from from start to series B. And so you could see why his experience was just perfect and he's another amazing human being, so could not be happier with with the team. Somebody asked me yesterday. You know how's? How's your tech team? And I just immediately said Epic.

And he was.

Like I'm going to start answering questions that way, but but I really do. I I truly feel that way and I know know it to be true that our tech team is epic and it's the best. It's the best part of our company. And, and that's important when you're a tech company. I suppose.

Also I mean. I think you guys. All breathe this whole social impact you. Know, yeah because. I think all of you come from this kind. Of backgrounds. Yeah, so let's quickly switch gears and so where are you right now? So have you have you like? Reach product market fit? Or are you still trying to get there? Take us a little bit through that as well.

Yeah, so we we've now got 75 I think made that's the latest number that I was saying. I think we're probably up over 8085 brands now on Shop 5 that use us. And and of that where we where we're looking at trying to.

Nice nice.

Age product market Fit is, is that OK? We have 85 brands you know active using using gives but how many of them are using it every single day. And and I think you just crossed the 50% mark of. And half of them are using it every single day. They're donating money every single day through their customers learning what their customers care about most. So from that sense, I think it's really you know, a good positive check mark in the product market fit column. We also don't have that we don't have. We don't have churn, especially for our big for our big clients, which is another huge positive check mark. On the product market fit column. Where we are. Are where we need to hire and the big hole in in in in our team right now is we need a a head of marketing, sales and marketing. Build up a sales and marketing team because right now it's myself my old co-founder really running. You know my original co-founder running, running around, trying to, you know, figure this whole piece out. But with the next raise, that is exactly where we'll build out a a full sales and marketing team. If we can get somebody of the caliber of our CTO in to to run marketing and sales for us, we'll be in really good shape.

And so you have a product that's creating, like a rock solid wave in in the whole social social impact space. So how do you raise money like? Does this make sense for investors to to invest in? Because it's like you know?

It's a great question.

Yeah, because I mean money is investable and profitable. Businesses, but sometimes social impact like you know, sets a kind of, you know. How to call that man? I mean, I'm. Not able to. Articulate it well enough, but it has a kind of gap feeling like for investors like feeling that hey I mean. As you rightly said, is is binary right? So social impact is something like you do, right? You know later and right. How about making money right so?

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The social impact is something like a. Do you know later and right now making money right? So so how does that work?

Totally, and this happens with investors. It also happens with companies and This is why creating a a product like this that nobody's ever heard of. Nobody like so, so the amount of times that I'm on a sales call and I hear the other end say whoa. This is amazing. I've never heard of anything like this. And initially I was like, yeah, this is cool now I'm like. Darn, I wish you had heard of this already, so that I didn't have like so that you would have come to me, you know, like like this, I don't want to. Hear I've never heard of this before anymore and how cool it is like. Yeah, I know it's cool. I've heard that 100. Times this week. I want like just like let's get it going so that other people can hear about it. So that instead of sending $1,000,000 to charity. We can send. A billion dollars to charity right next?

OK true yeah.

Year, that's the. That's that's the cold. So so, so that's that's on that side on the. Investor side very. Same similar type of deal where you know somebody's here social impact and and there are these social impact investors out there so we can cover that whole piece as a topic as well. That's starting to. Become trendy ish. But a lot of times when I talk to investors and even when I talk to brands, the social impact piece is just. A byproduct of what we're doing in some sense. And so and. And that's the way I position it. And and I think folks can tell when they talk to me. Like, of course, that's my actual motivation, and the reason that I'm doing this, but I fundamentally believe that if we can, only if we can just make it a financially good decision for brands to run gives, then that is going to be the way that we send.

Right?

Billions of dollars to charity. There's $80 billion lost to discounts every single year in North America. E-commerce. Alone if we can. Shift 1/10 of that, let alone half of that into donation incentives instead of discounts. That's somewhere between 800 million and $4 billion. Going charity that otherwise would not have gone. And I think people will feel great about themselves when they actually get to allocate that money. We've had first time people who have never been able to donate before, bought something at H&M. Now we're able to donate 10 bucks to a charity that they cared about. Just having them think. About like those. Are the things that I'll never talk about in a pitch to a brand, or even to an investor quite frankly, but the the the question that the VC's are asking. If you're going to raise money from venture capital firms that they. Sure, they want. The impact is a cherry on top, and that's great. And and and maybe that's like a tiebreaker. Generously, it's actually probably a negative because they don't even take the meeting like you're saying, because that's some sort. Of stigma associated with it. But if they do take the meeting the the, the thing that you have to convince them of is that this can be 100 X that. That's all that's all the VC's want now. Can can this be 100 X investment for them? And so for me, I rarely talk about the social impact piece. I just talk about social impact in the sense that. The the, the, the market, and how big the market is and how every single brand go. Talk to three brands in your portfolio. Ask them if they are able to partner with charities effectively. I guarantee you the answer is no. We're building the fabric that that allows you to do that in a in a in a push button.

Fashion absolutely yes, because I think. It's it's it's. It's a change of the mindset and also the infra to make that happen. I think you're doing both. Right so. Great so I'm. Going to like get to the rapid fire round and so Yep. And if you answer well I'll probably send you a hamper, you know.

Down to you, right? So let's get.

That going right so so question #1. Is is it a? Book or a show you're watching that? You know has helped you think better. I don't. I'm not necessarily a believer in this whole motivation and inspirational stuff, but something that maybe saying something that's helped you like stop, reflect and think and say hey, this makes sense that you would share with our listeners.

Yeah, I think the on on the book side. The hard thing about hard things. I'm sure that's a book that comes up often, but. You know, by Ben Horowitz, it's just. It's hard and and I think being reminded of how hard things can be, but how important doing the hard things is is just something that everybody needs a reminder of.

Right?

So I'm actually on my second time reading this. Book through because.

To allow.

I just like to be like to be reminded of. It awesome.

The next question is is.

It a CEO.

That you are studying and you're following. I mean somebody who who makes you like feel like, hey, I'm connected to this person.

So I have I'm lucky enough to have an amazing CEO on on my Advisory Board and he's a CEO of Postscript, so he he has. He has run, you know, and e-commerce enablement company before, right? And so just a couple years ahead of me. And so I can learn. From his every move, and that's been extremely, extremely helpful in my development and and and even things that are outside of like, how do you go to market etcetera etcetera? But even just how do you manage a team? How do you? You you know how do you stay connected as your team grows as your remote work kicks in?

Right?

How does how does this? How does this all work? And so having somebody like that to lean on has been incredibly, incredibly helpful for me.

Awesome, what's your favorite SAS SAS app? At this point of time.

My favorite SAS app, I mean. I should have expected that question coming on here, huh? And I should have a. I should have an answer right at the the tip of my finger, I mean.

Anything, firstly working.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, we're we're we're using. I mean we're using G suite. We're using Slack and JIRA and we couldn't. Couldn't couldn't do it. I will say my sister-in-law just took a job at Atlassian, so so I'll go with. I'll go with JIRA makes our company.

Exotic great. OK, so are you a car guy or a bike guy?

Car guy or bike guy while I'm in Manhattan so I don't have a car. I don't ride as a bike as much as I should either.

OK.

I'm I'm more more of a like I need. I need a A-Team sport type of deal or like hit a ball or chase a ball or something like that. So more of a basketball. Flag football guy but but if I had to choose car or bike? I guess bike.

Awesome, great. How many hours of sleep do you get every night?

So I have two little ones at home that that are cutting into that a bit.

OK.

I generally aim. You know, I'd like to try to get 8 hours. I'd say I average about 6.

Car so this is the last one. So how is pandemic changed your life?

I think it looking on the bright side, the pandemic has changed my life in that I get to spend a lot more time with my kids than I otherwise would have. There's you know some breaks throughout the day. I actually, I've gone back to now going into the office because being at home is too is. There's too tempting to to to go hang out with the kids. But for a while. There you know, I I, I think I genuinely will look back fondly on doing a year plus between my in laws and my parents house while we having babies of our own, I think our our kids will have unbelievable relationships with their grandparents because of it. And so I, I, I'd like to think that. On the positive, that's that's how the pandemic has really changed. Changed my life significantly.

So I have. I have like couple of questions but this is like a like a a question that that I'm I'm going to go back to because I'm kind of intrigued. What's the playbook for company? I mean let's say any company to to become mission, you know driven. Or have the social impact fabric or DNA in their whole system? Uh, so I know it's it's it's. It's like an oxymoron to say playbook for social impact. You gotta have DNA but but but what's the way to actually like help early stage founders to start the process right in the beginning?

I think it's two things. I think one, it's commitment, right? So it's easy to just give up on it, right? And say that there's a million other things to have that that I need to. Get done today, but if you commit to it and set aside 30 minutes a day to focus on something like this, I think that that's important, right? So just committing to it and staying committed to it. And then, secondarily, is is. Find out ways to me. Make it to make it. Profitable for you, right? Like giving profitable but it is possible, and that's that's what. And and just be genuine through and through, right? And and so you can say like yeah, like hey, we're a start up business. We can't afford to donate $5.00 with every single purchase, but right if you send if you spend over $200.00 on our site we can give you 5 bucks to give to a charity of your choice. That's where we're at these days. If we as we grow. If we can get to spend. 150 and we'll give you $5. We'll do that. Spend 100 ultimately, spend you know every order will come with $5 charity. Sure, that's what we're working towards. We're not there yet. Where we are is if you spend 200. For us, that is where we can afford to do that, and and so that's fine. And and and it's genuine. And it's honestly it's so fun and you're saying, hey, we're weaving, we're helping you guys in. Obviously this is on the gift side. You know how, how, how, I think about the world. But no matter what you're doing on the social impact side. Whatever you can. Do whether it's donating product or just having a. Better, you know. Loyalty program or supply chain that that allows people to see what it is that you're doing from a social impact standpoint. Just commit to it. And do.

It got it and also benefits from an employer branding point. Of view as well because.

Definitely we have a bunch of our clients are are like wow like internally we send slack messages about. So now we we just started to build features around. Hey, your first donation was made hey, you just hit $1000 donated donated dollars, 10 grand of donated dollars right? And so like they're sharing that within their slack internally and it's been really cool.

Yeah, I think it could turn to be like a good gamified feature in the future, like have a leaderboard and and have all of that. Going as well. Awesome, so my last question and it done, which is what's something that you wish you knew when you were 20 and going back in time, yeah?

Wish I knew when I was twenty I think. I would say take more risks early on, right? Take more risk early on, that's that's that's what I would give my advice to myself when I was when I was young girl. You know things change when you have kids. That's that's that's the change.

Oh yeah.

That's the big change, but. But everything else? That that's what I would. That's what I would.

Awesome great Andrew. I mean it's really nice. Like chatting with you and getting to know you both. You know as a person, as an entrepreneur and as somebody is creating a social impact. I mean, usually you don't need founders who who are inclined that way and and I'm glad that I met you. Like you, you you kind of like balance life and a whole whole. Interesting, like your dad you you have social impact, mission, life. You've been through Ivy League, I mean, I mean, kind of like ticking all the boxes. Andrew, thank you.

For this big thank you no, it's been. It's been a pleasure, my pleasure to to join you here. Thank you so much Joseph for having me. On on the podcast and excited to do.

More awesome thanks and have a great.

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