AI Founders Podcast

Transcript

This is the SAS Universe podcast presented by Uber saga.

Success belongs to those who break all barriers. Now this was the coat that I was met with when I checked out today's guests LinkedIn. Joseph Abraham, the founder and CEO of SAS Industry, speaks with the founder and CEO of Zeagle A B 2 B fintech company. Digitizing spends to drive growth and unlock value through automated and innovative workflows. He's peer headed the growth story in organization such as Price. Raus Coopers, Yantra, Industries and many more. Today he is passionate about exploring blockchain ecospace and the opportunities available therein. Yes, I know I've not mentioned his name yet. It's none other than Raj. His philosophy very simple. The world is. Too big to leave unexplored, so let's jump right in. As Joseph and Raj explore the unexplored.

Hi Raj, thank you so much for taking the time and joining us today. On the SAS found this podcast. It's really nice to have you, and I was quite surprised. When I I now just got to know that you worked at price water Coopers and and you were into you know the business reengineering aspect of things and observing a lot of things at close quarters sparked the entrepreneurship bug in you and we'll come to that later. But it's so nice to have you Raj and get to know the whole story of zagal.

No, thank you so much. Joseph and SAS industry is, you know is a great platform. I have heard lot of you know great. You know founders, come on the, you know, come on the platform and speak about their story. So very happy to be.

Thank you so much for the kind words, so I'm just going to like straight away cut to the chase and talk about zager. So I've been sagle haggle. I mean, I like the the rhyming words that you just shared with me, but if you can just quickly help us understand how did Zach will happen and what's the origin story behind it?

Sure, so you know. I was running this company called. You know Yantra which was in the merchandising. You know business and you know as we were scaling we were the largest in India. You know we had the OPS in about 51 countries through partners and we were part of the GSI GC. OK, while you know travelling around the world, you know the conference is used to happen. Across the globe. One thing which I noticed was that how technology was changing. You know the whole perspective of gifting. OK, so from physical shops where you know the gifts were sent to your house, you know possibly you got, you know, 10 of the same gates, you know? Getting the vacuum cleaner. Getting all of those stuff OK, and that you're seeing. OK, the choice of giving a gift was moving away from the giver to the receiver right? And this is a one which we realize that is a. Big trend and. You know how can we go about it? OK, so you know, for example shopper stock you know the vouchers of shoppers stock you know were given to them. OK, you can go and buy whatever you like. In shoppers stopped. Then if I am not a customer of shoppers, stop or it doesn't appeal to me, what will I do with the voucher right? And the voucher will. So with this philosophy you know what we thought was that how can we digitize? You know the entire process and that time you know 2000. You know 89, you know, but things when things were changing and you know we just had that, you know, Lehman Brothers crisis, you know Merrill Lynch collapsing?

All that stuff.

Had happened and. For us, you know we thought that this is the right opportunity to, you know. Build a network agnostic platform OK for accepting payments right? And that's how you know travel came about. 4 tenants of Zagal was a. It has to be global in nature B. It has to be scalable C that it has to be tech first D that we should have experience. OK so we had some. Begins in terms of, you know, vouchers etc and we said. OK, this is a great place, you know. Let us start our different company OK and law. You know this, you know gift cards OK, which can be possibly utilized everywhere or use everywhere. OK, now you know the Indian, the the, the acceptance mechanism, that time. OK way back in 2011 was pretty bad and you know it is still very bad if you really ask me. You know India rule is not. You know with the recent QR code stuff coming in and you know credit card moving to be accepted on the QR code is fantastic, right? But for us it was launched and the first time we went ahead and said OK, I want to give a card which. Is a restricted network card that means you know the card will be used only at select merchants, so that I'm able to extract, you know, a beautiful discount from them and I'm. Able to give. It in a digital form. OK, so that was. The thought, so we went to visa. We went to you know Banks Bank listen. They said no visa says. You know these are everywhere. So you know how is it possible that you want to restrict people laughed. You know, but we said OK, let us try try and you know, once, twice, thrice you know we commented some volumes we were able to bring the network on board. We were able to bring the you know, the bank on board OK and then we launched the card which could be used anywhere OK. Wherever we have accepted merchant network. OK that was the start. So the first card. We launched was a card called Dam which was box office movie Balanza. This was basically. Card given to, you know all the IT you know people. Who are like? 5 days they've spent in the. Office doing high tech work. They get little bit, you know they want. To enjoy on Saturday and Sunday. They would be giving this card. This card could be used at PVR, could be used at you. Know pizza outlets could be used at a spa and and. So typically any one or 2 you know lifestyle places or or you know places where you go and. Play games, right? So like smashed etcetera. So this is how it was started and zagal started with this, you know, kept in mind those 4 tenants. And we slowly slowly started increasing the the repertoire of tarts, and the idea was will go full digital. You know, we will have a tech first philosophy. We put the platform up, you know, and we were doing phenomenal means phenomenon. So first year we did about 4,00,00,000 second year we did about 10,00,00,000 3rd year we did. 18 4th was 29. 5th was, you know 30 to 6th was 87,00,00,000 OK and that's how we started doing it and 7th was about 650 crores. OK and 8th was about. You know 1800 crores and you know today the volume GPU volume we do is roughly approximately 14,013 to 14,000 crores. So that that is how the journey has been and what we have done is we have digitized the entire you know, platform. We looked at need you know what is? The need of a. Person see at the end of the. Day, whether you know I, I give you a, let's say, for example, a voucher of a voucher of. You know Paul Scott showroom right? You you do you will will never go and use it. So what is so there is so much. Of breakage, which happens, right? And this industry. Actually gorged on it. OK, they said fantastic begging Itna benching is utilized. But that is. All our profit so you know the exceptions. Is also willing to go ahead and give you. Know higher discounts. To you OK. Why you know that you know? In any case I'll you know I'll be able to get some breakage and. Able to, you know, save the money so that is how we started and we wanted to, you know, lower this entire thing into some form of you know, predictable revenue, predictable growth. So for us the formula was. How can we predict you know revenue see, the words were nice, OK, predictable, predictable growth beautiful. To listen, OK? When we actually, you know, went on to do the system. Nothing was predictable. Only thing predictability was unpredictability. OK, that is how right and for us it was like a very tough challenge and and you know, to go to convert people, to convert corporates to convert their style was a learning means, learning. Right, you know? But we were at it and that's how we. Were able to, you know? We we we basically had one time, you know we went to our company. I won't name the company, you know, the HR guy had, like you know, 456 products lying on his table. He said, tell me you are giving me a 10 parts. OK so but look at the. Joy, look at the feeling you know when I get a physical product in my hand you know how do I? Is it said of course. You may feel good, you know now, but if you get 10 of these same from 10 different people, will you like it right and then you? No, no, but you know, just to take that story and you know the that resistance which was there in in India. OK, you know from from all. Corporates enterprises to. Change is today is a totally different world today, physical goods submitted. You know, people do. Of course you know that's a big industry and still going on. But what is really, really catapulted is this ability to, you know, be able to have the entire experience digitally and still enjoy what you. I really wanted to.

Absolutely, absolutely lovely. So when you're talking, I mean what you've done with Ziggy is amazing because you've given the power of choice you know and and then it's it's amazing to democratize that, but there's a back story and we we spoke about that way back in, you know, the streets of Delhi. This story originates. Do you wanting to buy a Nike Air shoe? So I I want to connect that here and and talk a little bit about that and how it solidifies somebody 's philosophy or their you know point of view of what what they want to shape their life about. So want to talk a little bit about that.

You have. I would love to, you know, tell that story so you know typical middle class South Indian guy in in Delhi? You know we are all called madrasis, you know, but then there's you know. Kerala, Karnataka, Tamil Nadu and Telangana is one and Andhra Pradesh is is one for them. You know was brought up there. And it was a it was. You know, and coming from a middle class family, you are only given you know limited amount of money. OK and within that money you have to live right. See the. You have to dream the ability to dream is taken away from the middle class because you have to sustenance of day-to-day just takes away everything away from you. OK, there is nothing left that's where you see. You know some of these great leaders who have built, you know, super great companies. You know, I really, really admire them because. Middle class, and especially in you know in. In larger cities it's very difficult, so I'm talking about you know pre liberalization. Area so I was. 16 I wanted to buy this. I had gone to a place called the Farm Market. I wanted to buy this you know shoe which had come so those were like all imported shoes which were sold. You know, in the farm market looked at the shoe called. You know Nike air. It was called Nike Air and you know the price was 1250. We tried so much to bargain. The last price he was willing to give it to us was 1250 bucks. This I'm talking about 198687 which. Was like, you know. Very different era at that time, right? And true to buy that, she was very, very tough, OK. And you know, I looked at 2:00 130 bucks. From there you know my desire to be absolutely financially independent at any. Cost at any. Point of time, the underlying the you know thing. Which hit me was. That I should always have the ability to buy what can be sold if. I want to. Buy that right and. Really, you know that positive additional in you know which, like I think directly got shot into. My you know whichever liver, or you know wherever it gets it. I just I just kicked. It and I. Said man, you know I have to do it. I have to so you know I said what is the easiest thing. So I had a friend you know who used to print T shirts so you know I made some designs OK from here there looked at it, you know. Made adventure traveler. You know design and then you started selling T shirts on the streets of you know daily. So basically to friends and families first, then call us to friends. There's that and we started, and from there you know the first profit which I made was ₹3000. I could, I did. A 3 or 2 and a half and then add some money and maybe 3 night care shoes, right? But I I did not buy I, you know, took that money and I you know I met one gentleman. You know from the Haldiram family. Who was into stock market? So this was like an accidental meeting. We started talking. You know we got like really, really. You know good pulse with them and I invested the money in stock market from the kind money I made in stock market is I still haven't made that kind of money. You know till now. There was like huge if you just. Take the number of multiples, right and. With that money, you know I went on to do my first NBA, you know? And then then I, you know, started a company way back in 94. It was into financial services. I have always been a, you know, a friend by you know, I would say not. Tech tech was. Not there that time. OK, so it was always a fun guy and and you know very quickly very quickly was able to wrap that, you know, company up with another guy called Patterson, another company called Patterson Securities. You know, sold that company to Paterson with whatever money came is how I, you know, went to us.

Wow, wow, that's that's a really, really nice story. Right, so when you build Zagel coming back to the zeagle story, how did you actually validate this product? Like how did you know that this would work? So you saw a. Problem and the problem was that it was it was a broken system and you went about fixing it with predictable revenue, predictable growth. But in in essence, how did you validate this? Like what was your validation all about?

Yeah, so you know critical stuff was that. See something we? Had in mind. OK, one thing we thought that you know we are understanding the market OK and and something we thought that you know the. Customer would love it. Now you know this was a good idea on paper. OK, when you brought it on the paper, it was lovely. That OK, we will digitize this and you know go ahead and but you know what we really missed. Was the mindset OK? There is the mindset of the consumer to go fully digital wasn't there, right? So our our experimentation which happened was that we said OK, who are our lowest hanging fruit? OK, first thing is, how do you do the validation validation is you have to have some. You know some Guinea pigs with you, right? If? You don't have any Guinea. Then gone so you know we figured out 567. So we were. We were not successful. OK so none of them got this idea of, you know, digitizing. And the you know. The car, they said no no no we. Want something to? Feel right, it's not the it's it's a gift. If it's a gift and you know I'm just transferring, you know this in form of a car. I don't like it and which will not to be very candid without everything is good. Why? Why? Will they not use?

Right?

Like for example Geo saying that I will make it zero. Use my phone till you know still if you see people who are on Airtel, you know never fell for that and you know they were like always using so same as our philosophy where where you know we went tried this but didn't happen right then you know we we repackaged the entire product and you know and. What we call shorten the the journey and we said OK. Box office movie Bonanza. So that is what did the segmentation. OK, so from a below we moved to our country is how you you? You know you. Would look at it. Right? In a country we looked at OK, you know one particular state within a state. We looked at 1:00 of one company within the one company we looked at a HR. OK, that is how our wow. And to go back from HR to company to state to country to. Grow is like a reverse. Right, you have to do. And all what you have done? OK, so that's all. Biggest lesson we have learned is that as we grow, it's like you know the snake which sheds its skin, right and regularly. So for us also it has been, you know, you know, haven't been able to shed fat but shed skin. Yes we have, you know, shared multiple times and that's how. Our validation started with that particular thing where we were willing to go to be HR and you know enterprise HR and talk to them. OK, so from there one victory to another, to another, to another to another.

Awesome awesome.

So in this you know entire span of about you know 9 or 9 and a half 10 years. We have grown about you know 3 and a half 1000 times. So you know when when I used to hear these stories right that, OK some 3 2000 times. When the I say man, you know. How can they grow 3000 times, right? What is it that they would be able to do that 3000 times, but now you know? When we actually go and you know, see how. We have done. And if you ask me, will you? Do it again. I will say no.

OK, got it.

It's like a painful process.

Got it, got it. But it is worth it right? The the journey was totally worth it.

Oh, absolutely, you know, fabulous means fabulous. Couldn't couldn't be more fabulous to be honest, right, but but as you say, a lot of people say you know, if I could do. It again I. Will do all over again. No I don't. Want to do all over again?

Right, so in terms of validation, how did you go get your first early adopters like you know. So I love the whole idea of the bomb card. You know the the movie card and you you narrowed down to one company and you probably you know work to the HR to give. It as a as as. As kind of a rewards rewards package, right? So yes, I mean, if you. Can just take us to. The whole journey of how you got more customers from them.

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I mean, if you can. Just take us to the whole journey of how you got more customers from there.

You know the beauty in this is I have to give a you know a due due due regard to the HR guy who was in that company. OK it was a large company he Co created the. Product with us. OK, so. But if you can, now you're giving me, you know plastic and saying, use everywhere. But you know there is no. There is no philosophy behind it. If you can bring a little.

Bit of little.

Bit of philosophy and feelings into it. Then you know it will be able to relate better. So he was. The one who came up with. You know this idea of bomb? OK, it was not us. It was he who said that you know, why don't? We call it box. Box office OK and we said no, let's do it. Box office, you know movie and then he said no do bonanza as well. So we said when it will be called bomb OK and give credit to him. You know it was because of him that. We were able to. Come up and post that we have not seen a down here in zagal in. Last 10 years.

That's that's really nice to know that you know your customers can also Co create a product with you. And if you listen, well, it it. It has a great you know fuel for traction. So again, going back to the early adopter stories. The reason I'm sticking to that is a lot of times early entrepreneurs struggle. You know, getting the first 10 customers. 15 customers, so how did you cross that? You know that whole bridge of of the early adopter curve you know, so to speak.

I'll tell you very interesting story there. OK, yes. Guy we told him. I said see, you know you are. You know this will fly OK. How would I know if you buy if you just buy it OK and nobody else buys it for us? It is like a wasted effort, right? So you know, your your creation will only become successful if you can convince a charge. Various other companies hours so you know whoever was there in his, you know. You would call. Them, we'll tell them you know, there is a great part you know we are using it in our company. Phenomenal response from this. You know those those times you know MPs was like a little different? You know he sat. You know he. He would say that see I did as he sat and. You know in fact. Customer satisfaction has been the highest. You know, we we. Like 150 people and you know. 149 And you will get us. Some 6710 you. Know testimonial saying you know we are extremely happy. We used to get some. You know clock clock. All that you know. Now we are getting some which is of our choice. So what happened is because of his ability to connect to other choice and this was done very strongly without you know anybody. Actually you know being. Or participating in it. OK so it was like it was. Complete how do you call it a concealed operation, you know? It looks like a concealed. Operation, but that time it. Was just just. In the flow. It happened OK. Why don't you call this 45? People, tell them you know we will come and visit them and you know show them. Some samples let them see and. Is how it. Set up it picked up like you know nobody. Business so imagine from 4 states to 10,00,00,000 and 10 to 18 was like good for us. That means you know people were you know really. Liking it and buying it. That is how it got. You know we were able to get the validation from one guy to 2 to 410203040 before you know once it is it crosses you know. Typical magical market. You know what you call as like about you know 108? OK, once it's like 108 it goes beyond OK and that's all for us it has.

Uh, let's talk a little bit about your team, right? So how did you build your team? And who's who's part of your team and and what do you look for in team? I'm pretty sure your team is really big right now. I mean, you've you've grown leaps and bounds, but going back to the whole journey of building a team right and. What is your delegation mantra, which is a follow-up question right? So everyone loses the word delegation, but what is your delegation mantra?

So you know the first thing which I did OK, and this was way back in 2012 when I hired Avinash. OK Vinash cook Hindi you know who is the MDA and CEO of ZAGAL. When I first hired him. OK and. You know he came over from Delhi, you know, to Hyderabad in my office. Had you know lunch and I really liked the guy. He was very good, very, you know, very fluent, very smart. He was a. Chicago Booth guy, you know I had experience in the prepaid. I wanted somebody you know to have experience in. The payment side of it.

OK.

Otherwise, I I come from more. Then more strategy background OK. OK, you know having. Coded and then we wanted somebody from the payment. And you know, Avinash suited beautifully. OK, so when we hired was also for him. He wants me to do something entrepreneurial, OK? Wanted somebody you know on whom I could actually depend. So the first I did, which was probably a, you know. Otherwise, if you look at, it could be. A big risk. Is I handed over the cheque book to him? I said, where is the checkbook. You are the signing authority. OK, you know at any given point of time, if you have to write a check above 1,00,00,000, you know. That is how? Then you have to come to me, otherwise please go ahead. OK, so you know, while I did this, it was from more from my intention of you know, making sure that. The process is run fast and. But but what it? You know what it appeared to the other guy was that, oh, this person is giving the entire chequebook money of the company in my hands, OK? Huge trust, so the first thing you know when you form a team. OK, so start with the TT for trust. OK, building the team what we look at is that OK, you know when we talk to them multiple questions there are so many surveys, so many things you know, but it is. You are that talking. You look at A and you found some you know feelings. You will have also done the same. Joseph, you know when you looked looked at you. Know some of them. So that's how we. Looked then then you know. Once this, I'm talking about the seating. OKC team is very, very important. Right and then you know. Sold our vision to them and while selling the vision, you know what we? Thought was OK, so I'll tell you. Very interesting stuff. When you're a small company, right, you know people who are joining you are joining from large companies. OK, they and most of the times they realize that they think that you know we are doing actually a favor to you by leaving that big company and joining you. OK, this comes across I tell you honestly. This comes across. Multiple times you know I used to work for a very large brand. I left all of that. You know to come to you. You came to me for what then? You know there was a vision we had to achieve. We have to do, you know, you want the freedom you want the ability but you. Don't want to. Put in those long hours because you know. You or or or or you don't want. To forego on the. It is you know which you had. These kinds of tuning you know over a period of time it takes, and if you really today look at it, you know for us we have been in touch with very fortunate, very, very fortunate that we were able to get some strong. You know what we call strong like individuals who came into the company and said, you know we are the pillars. You know, please build on us.

Awesome, that's that's really, really nice to know and I'm going to go back to, you know. The the stories, the stories of Epiphany, as I would say, wherein you know stories where those stories that that gave you like immense satisfaction of what you've done right? So is there any? Any story you can, you can leave the the name of the client, but like where Ziggler has been a very strong force in in in what's been happening with those companies, right? And and how it's helped them with the product. So if you can just give one or 2 stories, it would be great.

Absolutely means absolutely so you know when we were, you know we were selling this card. OK, so you know I've bought the cards. I've got like 500 cards with me. Now I have distributed the cards with them. I have no way to record it. How? Do I report it OK? Big clients, you know who is like you know this is this about 7th year with us? OK, we asked us that. You know, then? What the rates are very large company very means where you know top 100 of. India is our. You know what are you, you know. So I I don't have it, I said. Said OK, what do we do? You said no, I like to move, you know, because I get your thoughts. I love your experience. I love the you know ability to be able to translate, but I have no way to the God as to where, what, how it has been, you know, spent I said I said you would have some kind of a system. They said no, you know we don't have a system. We typically do excels. OK, so once. They realize this, you know, Zaglin 's biggest. Enemy is excellent, women. OK, excellent, it's not, you know, doesn't have competition, you know, jiggles competition is excellent, emails. OK, so that we realized way back in, you know, 2017. You know 18. OK, OK. So then we said, OK, what do we do? I said, Sir, if we build something for you, would you be willing to try? There's a big. Customer and you know he said no no no. We know we will have to. Run it through security this that I said OK I'll go ahead build something. For you, if you do not. If your team does. Not like it. Leave it OK, then we'll check it, he said. No, I will not pay. For it As you know, you know. We'll pay for it. OK, so. Then again, this process of Co creation started. So there was a ready made ready reckoner so how does you know it? Flow into the enterprise philosophy? OK, So what are the approvals which so he showed us the approvals which were on email email? It was then documented on ERP and from ERP. It went so you know, ERP was not the system. Of truth. OK. Was basically a. Recording system right? And that's what we realized that it is a recording system and it is not the source of truth. So which again you know what for us? It was like a real learning. Very, very quick. You know learning for us and then we told him we said OK. So we will now you know. What we realized is. That they're between HRMS? OK, and you know, between HRMS and? You know ERP. OK life very very large gap which nobody is addressing. This this particular thing I tell you, we could have done whatever month and we wanted, but we would. Have never been able to. You know reach. This particular point of that there is space between HRMS and ERP. OK, you know, India is all about broken systems, OK? Whether you take roads you take telephone lines, you you take sewage, you take anything. Everything is about broken. And how do you do? You know, within the broken? How do you build it? OK, it's it's it's. It's India. India is changing but this is what it is. Right so from. What we did was very quickly, you know, we made the product product would. Hear from you, know from HRMS and post India, OK? So this is our first product which started where you know slowly our system became the source of truth. OK, so they said fantastic. We are doing rewards. You know we are using your your system for recognition. Now tell me is there a way you can also give me some times of you know some type of software which could take care of. Reimbursements you know, expense management, something like this, OK? Customer and then very quickly from there you know Joseph and quickly said OK, this is a great opportunity. So we started, you know from a simple reward and recognition for employees to reward and recognition. Channel you know, to expense management to you, know reimbursements, and slowly moving into this category of what we call as spend management so. All of these experiments is with a single client, so we started with him. You know, we became he became successful, we became successful. That's how it has been.

Awesome, awesome that. That's really, really nice to to know, so I'm going to switch gears here to fundraising so I I. I mean, what's been your fundraising mantra or your philosophy or your thesis for for fundraising, so should. Should you raise funds? Should you not raise funds? And what's been your journey?

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Episode what's been your fundraising mantra? Are your philosophy. Are your thesis for. For fundraising, so should should you raise funds? Should you not raise funds and what's been your journey?

See, this is a. This is a constant challenge which we go through OK. OK, now you know it's like marriage you look. Like and she looks. Beautiful you say. Yep, she is the girl right? And then. Starts talking and you feel mad. No no, no, no. Not for me. Right? For every you know, for us, this story has been. That you know it's it's. It's a tough one. OK, and it is a tough one. It is like you know. The the independent. Streak what we have in ourselves. OK, we don't want to compromise on that. So, so that's my critical critical mantra. OK, and I say that you know, if we if we are able to get partners. Who are Co creators? OK, so the company create a larger company then fantastic, but if they are. Not and there's. OK, you know we'll be passive. We don't want, you know this. We don't need. You know just financial investors. If we have to take. We will take, you know, investors who are. You know who will? Be able to. Add or balloon the managements brain OK and so. Bring your brain to be able to look at the bigger picture, deliver you know bigger thing and scale is is. How and and to be very candid. You know there are very good guys, but very few very few. It's not as if that you know every other guy out there is the right guy. So you have to.

Right?

Very very clearly that who is the person you know whom? Who is the fund you know which possibly would be in a good. Partner with you. OK, so first. Has been a testing exercise to be honest, OK? And you know. A little bit of how we will, you know. Internal churning is how we have to do so. See the worst part of it is that. We are a profitable company. OK, so then when they look at us they see your profitable. That means you are somewhere compromised scale. We tell them. See we from 4,00,00,000 to 14,000 crores. OK and then we have like about more than you know, 1000 clients on SAS OK and you're saying no no no. Somewhere you would have compromised. OK the guys who are profitable. You know who want to invest? Don't want to give you that valuation, because yes. So the guy who wants to give you a valuation he doesn't like your profitability. The guy who likes your profitability does not want to. Give you valuation. So you know there there is a. There is a constant struggle and struggle, you know. How do we? You know that's. How we we call it and and sometimes. This we we also need to realize whether whether you. Know at what time do we? Do the fundraising right and for. As we what we we took a very very calculated call that we are profitable. OK let's. How go global? OK, So what do you need for global? Add more products and now you know look at the single metric which is the most important metric is that you know what's my pack to LTV ratio. So my back LTV ratio has to be beautiful. If that is the ratio mantra fantastic, you know we'll. Go ahead, right so. Many lessons we have learned that in fact. The way the reason we are profitable is because we don't have experimental capital.

OK.

Once there is no capital to experiment, we do what we do during. Well, we did the same thing again. And again and again, and again and again, and. Again, right? So there is. What do you call you know chutzpah. You know every. Time, time to do something new, something new. This is not is not there like you know, slightly boring in that sense if. You have to ask.

That's a good boring to me. Like you know, yeah, so very interesting to note, right? So in in essence, you're a prophet con, and I mean in in in. If you had to put it in in in perspective.

Wow, that's a beautiful thing. This is the you know first. Hearing this, the next journalist I. Mean I'm going to tell you that please call us profit.

So I picked this I I picked this word from you know Anand Jain from Netcore. I mean he he netcore as a profit core. I picked it up from him. I mean from his lingo but but it's a it's a beautiful. So I'm making one more profit profit concert. It's very nice to to know. About that yeah.

See my thanks to her next time to Rajeshwar. You know, and when you meet them, you know. This is a very good thing.

Sure, absolutely. Absolutely I'll do that. Yes, this is Rajesh, not and so sorry. Yeah, so so so the other other question that I had and I'm going to like. Then move into the rapid fire round. And the the question that I had is what do you think is the future of payment? Since you're into the whole space of payments, I've always been intrigued and especially, you know, both Indian context and global context. What's the future of payments? We see digital currencies. We see all of this blockchain coming in all of that, but what do you really see as the future of payments?

See, think about payment OK, what is what is payment OK then every sovereign wants to control their currency. OK, now now the currency. And and and. You know their positioning is totally depending on the currency, So what sort of between US and India? It is just the power of currency which is the real real. How do you? Call the differentiator and. Ability to do so, you know ability to actually sell to US or buy from US depends on. The currency OK? Hot processes, you know. Probably 2040 OK. It will be all digital currencies. There will be no single currency. Demise of dollar is how I call it. OK. And it is. It is going to happen irrespective, sovereigns don't want. They want that power that you know that currency which is with them. You know fully convertible currency which they keep with them, and they do a full money market management formula, OK? Do it right. Come to a come to a place where the entire world is digital single currency. The you know the theory of Heckscher. All the theory of competitive advantage was if you you know if you grow potatoes, grow more potatoes so that nobody else will be able to do potatoes right. If you look at the theory of Joseph. Repeater, which is theory of, you know, creative destruction OK. Like opposite. OK, so this is whatever is there. Break it. To you know, make. Something new. OK, so the innovation theory right so? You have to marry this innovation and. And the competitive. Advantage to bring the world, which is very very similar. Like you know, if you want to our town so you know you look at our politicians speaking, they will speak OK. This is a Jat area. You know this is a yeah this is like you know over the past area this is a higher caste area all that see. All that ******** has to. Just move away. Right and maybe. One of the things and then you see the economy OK, is powered by the money multiplier, right? The tension theory of money multiplier that how fast the money moves. OK or the? Or, or you know, whatever is is what it is right? And what we have to look at and what we have to see is that you know. How the world will come so you know you go to see. Look at politicians, what do they do? They you know they they go to a particular you know area called Jat area. They will talk all about. They go to. They will talk about that particular caste particularly, you know. So you know, for for us you know the world is evolving. OK, and what technology is you know going to do today and tomorrow? What it has done till today is X what it will do. You know tomorrow is. X raised to the power of N so the places like, for example, no longer will people talk about cars, the village and all of that stuff and this sovereign power, you know which is which is there today. You know, just because you hold so many, you know dollars, reserve dollar is a currency, I think by 2050 will will be debt. OK, and take about 30 years or 28 years and the reason is that aging population OK and and the power of you know technology is totally. Democracy is coming into play both for payments and politics. So see so if you really honestly speak right, you know this payments is is a political play. Right you you will be rate I want to tame inflation. I increase the rate I increase the rate suddenly my EMI which was ₹50,000 becomes ₹57,000. I haven't done anything. You know, ₹7000 you know extra suddenly you have. To pay, why?

Right?

And you know beautifully, come and extend your years. You know your repayment years by another 23 years, and then you know, then you die. You have to still pay to them, right? And it is all happening. Why? It's all happening, yeah yeah yeah. So look at this right and and see inefficiencies have to move out, right? And how do inefficiencies move out? The movement you digitize OK, and that's what you know, even travel. You know internally, externally we try to digitize everything. The more you digitize, the more the source of truth. Will become open OK, more, clear, right and more clearly more.

Great so I think got a good perspective on that. I'm going to get straight into rapid fire and I know I know we are very far away. But if you answer well, I assure you Raj I will send you a gift hamper. Yes, so let's do this.

Some coffee with Karan.

You know?

Raj come on.

Absolutely, let's do this. So the first question is is is that a movie that you've watched recently? That you love that you think others should watch.

You know 50,000 times movie which I watched is godfather.

Godfather OK, the the series are got it.

50,000 times it tells you everything about management. It tells you you know what to say when, so that is the most critical part of people. Learn what to say when. I think how the battles will be won.

Awesome, who's who's your favorite CEO? 's of all time.

That is, that is, you know, very. Very tricky, you know question, but I'll. Tell you in. In my life journey with to whomever I have, you know met, I think one of the fondest CEOs, I I I'm seeing is N Chandrashekar. Move the 30,000 pound gorilla at that speed is what in a very humbling experience for me.

Got it got. It 3rd quick question since you started with this, how many pairs of shoes do you own right now?

About 82. 8082

82 But Nike is still Nike are is. Still not part of the collection.

Here is not part of it. You know what I was looking for?

Got it.

Awesome, what's your favorite SAS app?

So favorite you know. So I use eagle a lot, so other than keeping keeping you know that aside, if you if you really look at it, so most of the you know apps they'll be uninstall. We are on, you know, some of these good apps, but typically no outside. Favorite you know per say, is what I would say other than you. Know my own company.

How many hours of sleep do you get Raj?

So my Fitbit says this today was 6 point. You know 6 hours and 9 minutes. So typically I totally go by Fitbit. OK, so mind is tuned to Fitbit OK so it tells me you know what's my resting heartbeat? What's my, you know, sleep and I can see the. Direct correlation between you know if I don't have a sleep, my resting heartbeat is a. Little bit higher.

Got it. Got it, So what kind of person are you? Are you a car person? Are you a bike person?

I am a 3rd person.

You're a car person great and and and the last rapid fire question is how has pandemic changed your life?

Beautifully pandemic I I tell you COVID-19 OK COVID-19. Is one of the one of the. Please change makers. Is how well it you know my house. My villa got flooded OK.

I said

Let it flood 20 times. I don't mind. Bring the power of digitization in every household, every company, every city, and every place, wherever it can be. And COVID has been one of the greatest CTOS of all times. Who is your? Who is the greatest? I would have told you that you know it is. It is. It should be given you know a Nobel Prize Nobel. For being the best cito you know. You know, of course, humbled by you, know, so many deaths, and that, of course, is like one of the best bummer you. You know, one would go through, but to be very candid with you, you know what has it taught us. OK, it has taught us that. You know, things can happen anytime, digitized. Digitized is the language which the world is speaking. Today. People who used to take decisions and maybe you know 102030. You know months are taking decisions in you know 102030 days.

Absolutely absolutely great Raj. So I think we've done the rapid fire have one last question for the whole podcast. I'm I'm I'm going to send you a hamper, definitely like you want the hamper because of Godfather. Like I'm slightly biased, right? Yes, yeah. Yeah yeah, great. And so the last question for the podcast is. What's something that you wish you knew when you were 20? I asked this to every every guest on the podcast, so what's something that you wish you knew when you were 20?

The only myself myself.

Nicer view OK.

It only regret I have. You know, if if at all any regret is that I didn't know myself that better as I'm knowing it when you know when I turned 40. OK, so so that is that is one. Of the you. Know I would have loved it. I tell you, I you know that's the principle of life. That you will have to go through it for you to experience it, you know and and that's why. I gave in. Otherwise I would have. Fought it and the question is wish. I knew myself better. I tell you I would have done more wonders.

Got it awesome Raj. So thank you so much again for taking the time. Lovely chatting with you and getting to know you in person as well. So Yep, I'm in looking forward. And yes, for those of you who tuned in lot of lovely lessons, I think what really, really caught my my attention. Is the number you know 3000 plus times scale and growth right? That that's really possible, and I'm glad I made a profit on again, right in this podcast so, so thank you so much, Raj, and have a great journey ahead.

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