AI Founders Podcast

Transcript

Welcome to the SaaS Founders podcast. If you're looking for raw, unfiltered, authentic insights stories and sass wisdom, then you've come to the right place. Go get your cofounders and peers and grab your favorite beverage and get ready to buckle up for an intuitive. And lively journey. TuneIn and hear discussions on the adventurous sass, gross journeys embarked by brave founders and leaders. And now your host Joseph Abraham.

And Manoj, welcome to the SaaS Founders podcast. So glad to have you today with us.

Hey Joseph, thanks.

And it's really.

Thanks for that.

Nice Yup, chatting up with you before this, you know podcast recording. So we are ritual and we ask everybody who comes on our show, which is like hey, do you have a favorite quote that inspires you, motivates you, or something that inspires you that makes you get get out of the bed and and go. Ahead and face the world.

Yeah, I mean it's a it's a nice story for me. I mean. I never had a quote like that, but few years back I started thinking that yes, I I think.

OK.

I can have a better day to start with, so my my son made a small small little drawing and it's it's slightly pasted on my bedroom. Right, and it's not a code, it is. It is 5 words. I generally live by. I mean I try to. Of add these in my day-to-day life and I'll just tell those 5 words to you. One is love OK? Respect OK smile wow OK. Wow and learn.

Nice so love respects smile, health and learn. I mean those with sum up. I mean life is summed up within this. By the way, these five elements absolutely great, so was this like a Suns drawing that inspired you and to come up? With these words.

So the words were chosen by me, but the idea came from him that he told that, OK, let's paste something in our bedroom and I told that yes, I think that's a good idea and let me paste some words which I really want to kind of keep reminding me all the time. So that's that's what we did.

So before we go to the next question, what's your favorite word or? Part of this five.

The favorite is, I would say, help help. Because most of the times I have found that if you have a attitude for helping you, you also get the love and the respect and the smile. Most of the times.

That's that's brilliant. You put yes, I mean it's it's. It's more about what what goes around comes around, absolutely. So helping people. And that's what Zoey does, so. Let's talk a little bit about Zozo Day. I hope I got the pronunciation right. So what's the product all about? What does it do and what's the problem you're solving? And who are you helping?

Yes Sir, we are into the business of rewards, incentives and payouts. Now this entire rewards and incentives and payouts industries have huge industry with different use cases, different form of statements. So we started with the employees where employees right from the time of hiring till the time they retire from a company. They have different milestones. Whether it is their personal milestone, like a birthday or an anniversary, and it can be a professional milestone like you, you have done well at at the company or you you completed one year or you did some awesome work at in your targets and so on, right? So that is 1 use case. We cover 4 employee rewards and incentives. And then we added another use case which is around the sales teams because. If you talk about sales team, they are mostly driven by incentives and commissions when they reach their quotas. Now that entire process of quota calculation incentive calculation for a large sales workforce. Is is a very complicated task and that is something which we solve through our platform. And then we have our rewards and payouts platform which can be plugged into any kind of third party platform like Salesforce or HubSpot, or a slack or an SAP and so on so that you can. You can get started directly from these applications. Without without having to switch to our application right? So these are largely the problem statements which we are trying.

So see, that's amazing. So you're like in HR space. You are in the sales space and also on the rewards space, which is like really large, so very quickly. How did you get started and we discovered a pain point somewhere down the line and you saw that pain point, which has now become massive. And it's free. Comments right now. So how did you know it was an attractive? Enough enough, you know, business opportunity out there like it made money sense, right? So how did it start and how it is a good idea? So viable idea.

Yeah, so one was when I was working with Flipkart way back in 2011. Twelve I I saw that the entire rewards is a big use case because even Flipkart was without. Without doing anything, I. Mean there was organic business coming to Flipkart. For rewarding use cases. And from 2012 to 2017 we were doing and experiences and activities business in the form of rewards and incentives. And while doing that, we realize that India is still not very ready as a market when it comes to experiences and activities like adventure etc etc. So instead of justice doing experience as an activities, we expanded into a very horizontal. Kind of a quasi fintech play which is not just about that particular category but it can. It can cover any kind of.

OK.

And there was there was a good demand from the companies. I mean, we we acquired almost like 300 clients in our first year. Wow, because most of the players have been very service oriented in this particular segment and we started with a very product first approach.

Right?

Very, very highly focused upon taking product and with a very neat uux. Which really helped us win clients. The market is huge. I mean if you go by data, it's a 300 four $100 billion market so.

Right?

Yeah, it's huge.

Awesome, I mean pivoting can always help. I mean keep your eyes open and see where the validation comes from, right?

So tell.

Us a little bit about your team right? Your founding team. And how have you grown? So far and and a little bit about your team.

Yeah, so I think I would say that team has been one of our biggest competitive advantage and we we are like a bootstrap company and whatever we have grown in the last years I would say it's all the IT all goes to the team now. We are four founders, each one of us luckily are very complimentary in terms of our skill sets. I take care of product and marketing. My other co-founder. He's he's great in engineering and then there are other two founders which are ******** sales guys so so it it kind of covers the entire circle of typical startup journey. And then apart from four of us, we are very lucky to have a very fantastic team of almost like. 30 guys in our leadership team and overall the team of 200 guys and very stable and very solid team which which has been helping us grow to what we are today.

That's that's great or Manoj. I mean very quickly when you hire for somebody, what do you look?

That's a great question, because nowadays we all all are talking about talent war and so there is a perennial Cold War in terms of talent which is going on and. Which is which is. Also created by I mean different reasons. By companies themselves. True, but when it comes to hiring, in our case, we generally hire for attitude first because. Aptitude is no longer a differentiator nowadays because aptitude is becoming commoditized. I mean, it's easy to learn skills because there are so many sources. It's easy to kind of if you compare it 20 years back. But there is a scarcity of attitude these days. The the typical attitude which I talked about in the in the first question, which is like love, respect, hell. Yeah, those kind of things and and and finally the ethics and loyalty which. Because that is what can build a great company irrespective of funds. And all those things so. We generally look for attitude. 1st and. And aptitude is easy to check, I mean. You can check it by. Standard questions, but attitude is what really matters.

I'm in no denial about it. So I mean still can always be developed by. I mean attitude is something that it's there are not there, yeah?

Then we. Yeah, we we also made a small checklist which is which we call as a five piece. Wow, OK, so we check for. Passion, perseverance then how is his background and knowledge into products? I mean our our sector and then is this person very profit centric or is he just like looking into vanity metrics and then? About planning and processes. So these are these are the peas which we generally look at.

Those are really nice piece by the way. I mean very neatly. Yep, so I mean the the last two pieces were very surprising for me because I never heard of anybody right? So the prophet centricity and this person is going to be looking at processes and planning well, and that's that's brilliant. So let's quickly switch gears to your product. And so how many customers do you have? In your first year you had about 300. Customers, which is amazing I. Mean that's that's like crazy validation right there, right? Fast forward today. How many customers do you have?

So we we acquire almost like 1 customer every day and today today as we speak we we are working with close to 1000 clients and different parts of the world.

Awesome, and so let's go back to your early. Days you got your 100 customers fantastic 12 months, but how did your first 10 customers? I mean how did you cross the chasm?

So the good part was three of us. As founders we came from work experience, so each one of us had our decent network, both from our academics as well as from our work experience. So that is what we leveraged. I mean, we reached out to friends and families and and then I would say we were lucky to. Track those customers through through our network so that. Was really help.

OK, that's that's really nice. So you're 31st, and then you went all guns blazing. You know, beyond that so.

She had a.

Moment if you can go back and then we love stories. I personally love stories and I'm pretty sure all our listeners also love stories, so going back in time. Can you actually? Share a moment where as a founding team, you all came together. You had an emotion that hey, this business is validated. We are really doing the right thing right? So can you take us to the moment where that happened? The moment of epiphany or something like that? You can share with us?

Yeah, I would say I would say two moments. One is since we had two founders were into sales so we generally used to say that who will outdo the other guy.

Right?

So my so one of my founders he got a. A very big contract from Cognizant and that was really amazing and that that was a great great. And for us. And then my other other Congress is. That OK let. Me let me do better than this.

OK.

And then this guy gets even a bigger contract from scenes, so those were really moments where both the founders had a very healthy. Kind of way to kind of increase the sales and. Have that spirit and and when we started winning contracts against our competitors in the US market, that was the moment of pride for us because because that is when we realized that yes, I mean we we are better in terms of our product. And then we can win contracts against some of the best competitors in. The US.

Absolutely true, and then nothing like that. So in this whole process I'm pretty sure building the product like gaining customers and building a team. All this requires you to actually raise funds, even though you make revenue. So talk a little bit about funds, right so? Have you actually funds and what is the process like? You know, I do see that. You have these. Funds, but I just wanted to understand like what is the process like for you and. Walk us through the. Whole journey for us.

Yeah, so I mean some of us came from business backgrounds as business families who. Unlike a lot of other entrepreneurs, we really did not run after funding as such because we wanted to build a fundamentally strong business first. And then we assume that whenever we need the fund and if we are doing good, the fund will automatically come in.

Right?

So we raised a small amount half $1,000,000 in our first car when we were doing experiences and activities. Kind of a business. We raised it from couple of angels and Mahindra holidays because Mahindra holidays also wanted to enter into the business of experiences and activities.

Right?

Right, but in our later of tar, which is from 2018. When we started doing the SAS business for rewards incentives and. Notes that has been completely bootstrapped for the last three and half years. Journey is completely bootstrapped and today we are doing a. Revenue of around 5,000,000 year error which is which is completely bootstrapped so.

That's an awesome story, man. I mean I mean. It's it's really. Resonating with me because there's a very big myth that if you are a SaaS company, you have to raise money and I think that becomes like a mantra that a lot of them actually think that they have to have. I think you. Got it wrong by saying you can have a bootstrap business and still make it big. You know, just just by revenue. So I mean it's it's really really heartfelt, present and resonating statement that I'm able to. Hear from you, right so? Likely to raise in the future. I mean, what's it like? I mean, what does the landscape look like and what are the? Macro factors playing. Yeah behind the scenes, yeah.

So one is we are extremely capital efficient and good and we are also growing quite well month on month but yes I mean. We we might be or we I would say we will go aggressive in the market to raise a fund especially for our international growth. That's all we don't need any funds for our day-to-day operations, but if we get a fund to accelerate our growth so far from, say, X to 10. That would be great because if we do it bootstrap it might take 7 to 8 years. If we take a fund and do it, it might reduce our timeline. So that would be that would be a good.

Awesome, so now it comes to an important section you know which is a rapid fire section, so we want to ask you like quick questions and let's see like what you have to share. You know with our. Listeners so number. One, is there a book that you're reading right now and or any blog or anybody that you're reading right now? That's that's something that's really like helping you grow.

Yeah, I love reading and right now I'm reading a book by sadhguru. The book is titled death.

Oh awesome, OK, interesting, great. And the next question is, is there a founder? You're following us studying or you know clotting or watching from close quarters.

I I don't follow a particular person as such, but I observe whoever comes up. Boss so right from my my own family which is a family of businesses. My father himself and people as small as the street vendors and as big as Bill Gates. I I try to kind of so when I'm on the street I even talk to those small shopkeepers and those are also great. Great people to learn from.

Absolutely absolutely question #3 you know. Do you have a favorite online tool that you use every day at Zozo Day?

See Google is the default choice, but I would say Google is an outlier because every single person will say the same thing, right? So let me. Not give the credits to Google, but I would say we are big fans of HubSpot and we love the way they have built the product.

Do you use HubSpot?

Yeah, yeah, very heavy.

Wow, wow and the first question is how many hours of sleep do you get this? This is a question I ask if you found them. I just wanted to bust a. Few myths and and. Just want to understand if the myth is true.

I have a very healthy lifestyle I I sleep a very healthy sleep of at least 7 to 9 hours every single day. I doubt if I have ever missed it, unless I'm on. I'm on travel, otherwise I never missed it.

Yep, you're the 4th founder is busted the myth, yeah. Yes, you got like sleep. It's important, I mean it's not about like working. You know hard. I mean, it requires. Some days require you to work, but. It's not a lifestyle choice. Yes, yeah. And hey, what's your months? Of life or what keeps? You happy and going, I mean.

Yeah, so yeah, I think that happiness. Is a myth.

And it's it's.

It's little overhyped. It it. It works like a dopamine that as soon as you are happy you you are seeking more so there is no end point of happiness. So I generally try to keep keep a balance rather than seeking happiness. Yeah, I mean there will be sorrows. There will be happiness, but how do you keep the balance? That is what I generally follow here.

Right?

Yeah, that's that's really nice. So we come to our last question, which is going back in time. Manoj, you know what's something that we wish you knew when you were 20 years old?

Yeah, so great question. See I I have been following a lot of yoga and spirituality for the last. I would say 12 years now. I was lucky to have a my my roommate during my MBA days at I am that he was. He was into yoga and spirituality and then I started taking lot of interest from that. And then I also have been following couple of great guys in this space so. I think if I knew these kind of things like the body and mind and soul and the how, how these things work together and what is the meaning of meaning and purpose of life maybe? When I was twenty, I could have maybe done slightly better in my for my own self than I could have done, yeah? These are. These are tough things to know at that age.

Yep, and sort of peeling.

Right, yeah?

Also, by the way, that things that as you as you age, I think self actualization takes over and you really want to now like do something worthwhile. Maybe also your education system, because if you are, if you're getting that that kind of an education.

It tells you about these things I I think you. Can get it early.

I think for me for the whole, you know this whole process of actually like asking questions and learning from you. I think what stood out most. Was the word health? I mean if I would like, you know, sum it up because end of the day, I think that's there in you and I definitely see it resonates with me. You know, even though you gave me this five. Words and it's your. Favorite word, but I think it's also my favorite word because I honestly believe that when you help somebody, you pass a legacy. Because end of the day there's a part. Of you that you are actually sharing with. Somebody, and even if something doesn't come back, it doesn't really matter because end of the day it connects the dots in a way that we don't see by somehow it makes this world better in so many possible ways and it creates unlimited possibilities. So it resonated very deeply. And I do see that you've taken the same mission. With your product and your other coupon is making this possible in larger ways? There's really lovely chatting with you, Manoj, happy to have known you and through this conversation looking forward to staying in touch. Thanks so much for joining.

Thanks Joseph, have a good night's sleep.

Hey, thank you so much looking forward as well.

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