AI Founders Podcast

Transcript

Welcome to the SaaS Founders podcast. If you're looking for raw, unfiltered, authentic insights stories and sass wisdom, then you've come to the right place. Go get your cofounders and peers and grab your favorite beverage and get ready to buckle up for an intuitive. And lively journey. TuneIn and hear discussions on the adventurous sass, gross journeys embarked by brave founders and leaders. And now your host Joseph Abraham.

Hi sedu, welcome. To the SaaS Founders Podcast, it's really nice to have you and very quickly we have a ritual here, and the ritual is starting with something that inspires and motivates a founder like you. So we like to hear that it could be a book. It could be a quote. It really doesn't matter. So what's that one thing that motivates you wakes you up. Is there a code that? You can share with us.

Sure, it's a quote from the book I read, written by Nikes founder Phil Knight. The book is called shoe dog.

Right?

One quote from that book. This actually the context is important. He says this before Nike went for. The IPO roadshow so. The code that he said the cowards never started. And the weak died along the way. That leaves us ladies and. Gentlemen, us, that's probably that motivates me.

Right? Right?

Awesome, so he has not specified who this class of people are, but they're neither cowards now weak. So Yep, nice great. So with that as a backdrop, so I do understand that you know three friends come together, start, you know, with a lot of. Courage and accompany Zuri. So what is Zuri? What does it do? What's the product all about? Who does it help? What's the problem you're solving?

So in fact, today Joseph, we realized that we all live between hundreds of softwares in a day, right, right? We use a ton of software. In fact, even for this podcast to happen, we hopped between five different software. I hope you realize that it's actually that's what we've all been doing, which means today. Every company is using hundreds of software. Doesn't matter how small or big they are. Unfortunately, companies don't have the right. Tools to manage these software today because of which there is so much of undiscovered software, their own landscape, which leads to too much spending and also duplicate applications, a lot of security and compliance nightmare as well. And the answer to this spreadsheet, right so we said there has to be a better way to solve it. For CIOs and probably whoever the CIO's team interacts with. So that's the fundamental reason problem that we saw. Because of which we had to start slowly and the space has defined by Gartner. It's called SAS management. It's only part is when we started this company.

Right?

We didn't even know what segment. We're operating in. Right? Because people call it as software problem tool stack problem tech stack problem. But everybody's going through this problem so probably in the very early days of the SAS management. But I think once cloud becomes 100% before 2030, the platform that we're building becomes a ubiquitous one across all companies.

Awesome, so I mean this this problem, who are you specifically solving it for? So is it enterprises? Is it mid markets? Is there a specific segment that you're solving? Is there anything specific that you're doing for any of the segments?

So this is a problem today, for once you cross 101 fifty employee mark and generally that's when you use more and more software and you starting lose control and also it becomes an important aspect in the organization as well. So any company. So the sweet spot today is mid market for us like 200 employees.

Right?

To up to 2000. Rather, that's broader range, but you kind of get it enterprises or a key segment to us as well, but they are still 40 to 50%. Still the old. School of licensing, which is the perpetual and on. Prem installed applications.

Right?

So probably they'll. Be a right market, maybe in a couple. Of years from now.

Hey great, so say you I know you you know you discovered a pain point and you know you did see that it was very interesting proposition to go and solve, right? But when did you know there's a business opportunity here? There's viability also here, right? It's praying point, yes, but we need to discuss this, that there's an opportunity out here.

Sure, so I think coming from a sales background for more than 10 years, I know when it's a problem that customer will pay a dollar for and won't.

OK.

So when this problem occurred, we spoke to hundreds of companies globally right through a network right from small startups to big enterprises of 20,000 employees. The thing is. Everybody went through this problem during COVID. We realized because during COVID everybody was trying to. Cut cost right? Everybody would remember mid of last year and everybody who was going to this problem didn't know how to define this.

Right?

On us and everybody spent two months or three months, depending on how small a big they were to solve this problem. So we spoke to all of them and they said, hey, we didn't even know you guys. Are thinking of this and you're going to have a product? If somebody educated me about the product I would have bought it so we knew the challenge before getting invited. Education is important, so that's not gonna be an easy sale like a helpdesk product to begin with, because people not aware of it. But we know that people said if we knew. It we would about it, right? And these are coming from people who we know for ages and not. Somebody wants to make us feel good, so I think that was a great enough validation for us to get started, Joseph.

Awesome, I mean no, no. I mean greater validation. When somebody says hey, I wish it was there, and I mean somebody's solving I'm I'm so happy you're solving this absolutely. I mean, it also ensures that there's a lot of embrace and churn in the long term becomes negative, so that's what everybody aims for, right? So it's really beautiful. So switching gears here, so tell us a little bit about your team and how you, as a founding team came together. So what is the genesis behind and when we all realize that? Hey, I think we should come together to make this happen.

Sure, so the interesting part is when the founding team came together, we had not met in the last 14 months since then.

OK.

So I think. So it was a big courage decision like you like you said. Earlier, right and interestingly, I was in Singapore and we're starting up slurry. The Co founders were in India, but the fact that we knew each other? For more than seven years. I think was saying right. If you know somebody was seven years, it lasts a lifetime. I think we. Stuck with each other now. So so when? We realize this. Is a common problem and we aligned. Together and our philosophies also align that this is something for the long term, and we knew we were not going to give up anytime and our families that approved us of of this idea as well. Of course, with the condition me moving back to India was was a key decision there. One that was that was agreed upon. I think we could have we got started. And interestingly, we had complementary skill sets. So basically, even if one person had to leave, it would have been hard for us, right?

Right?

Because watch at any knows, I wouldn't know what I know that he doesn't know right? Which is A+ and A minus in a founding team, right? So, but I think the fact that we need to. The made the negatives not really considered, so there's only positives from there on and from there on we decided who would hire and how we would go about with things, and I think that story convinced even when we went for the funding as well. And that's how even that journey was a tad bit easier than people would normally imagine.

Awesome and so.

Tell us a.

Little bit about your extended team, right from the founding team. So how many people are there and how did you go about? You know building your first set of people. You know it's always a challenge to get the earlier hires and then and then the follow up to that is like hey, when you hire, what do you look for? So three questions in one package, yeah?

Shah, so when British Chait and myself, we were starting to form. I think couple of things are important to us, right one is you would know. I think somebody operates as industrial Joseph that today. I think six years ago one SaaS product had probably 2 competitors.

Right?

Today one SaaS product has about 10 competitors, so and it is growing. So we we realized. We can't do the easy things first and take. It to market, but that would have sounded great.

Right?

For investors, right? But we decided to do the hard things first. Build all the hard things first. So for anybody else to catch up. It's just scared them away because of the complexity of the product itself. So there are the first six months. We purely built the product. We realize what do the. GTM team do. So we invested time. On getting the whole content, marketing and branding right from day one. Because there's a compounding earlier, you start the better. Yeah right, so the way we hired so now that you understand the philosophy, how we went about building the company the way we hired is. Higher one level below all of us who are actually superstars. So at least for tech to begin with, that's what we did, right? So higher four to five different tech leaders and then hire A set of junior folks to run it. And also we probably fastener realized we can't pay the $100,000 salary battle in India even with funding.

He does.

Right?

Coming in for us so we can't play the Amazon battle right? It's very difficult, we realized what's the long term game we can play. So one thing that came out very well was we went to a lot of entry. Who were extremely motivated, greater 0 to one but couldn't succeed for whatever reason that was right. We didn't. We couldn't care less. About that so we. Spoke to them about our vision. They liked the problem we're solving because they had seen. It first hand. And we convinced them because the founding team, who the three of us were, and we asked them to. Join us and we hired all of them.

Hey super.

And so we built the gap for the technology talent when we when we started off right and same way for GDM. Also, we hired people who are very different who are actually operators 0 to one who say just give it to me and figure it. Somebody tells that in the interview. Hey, I think you're hired already, right? That's what I would say, but that's how we bridge the gap for GDM teams in totality.

Yep, Yep.

I think today we have about close to 30 employees and I think we've been able to build that in a short time. I think that's been the journey so far, Joseph.

Hey, that's really nice. I mean so very quickly Rick look at somebody whom you're hiring. What are the two things that you look for? I mean, specifically if you're to like, spell it out. I mean this will also help other founders understand like hey, these are. Things that we need. To be looking for as well.

Sure, so in fact, I'll probably tell you an example what happened, right? In fact, the first person we issued an offer letter was for the product's head or the product manager, right?

Right?

So because we three Co founders don't come from a pureplay product background. So we decided that should be like a sort of a fourth pseudo co-founder for us, right? But one thing we didn't believe in, title inflation from the beginning. We want people. To come and join and do the work. Right, right? So in fact we issued the first product lead role and the person just in the day of joining the morning. He calls and tells me give me the presentation of CPU. And all of these terms and conditions, else I won't join you. Lot of founders would have accepted, right? Because it is important from a fundraising perspective from building the product perspective. But but guess what? We said no. Not joining we have to start from the beginning. We will start. It's OK, which is at the back by two months. Perfectly OK, right? But we will not yield to this, so that was something the philosophy that we didn't have in. Hiring as well, right? So which brings me to the point that we want people to get things done right.

We got it.

They might have the right intent, but not the skill. That's perfectly OK. Today, most of them who hired did not come to the right skills. You can't wait for skills, and unfortunately I think in India the real talent shortages in the world of SaaS, right? You would know that being at that epicenter, so we decided get for the right attitude.

Right, right?

Pick it up and run and I think we will help you trained right? What are the things that we look for an interview and that's how we got people as well.

I mean you can hire for character and train for skill. You can hone always the skills later. So so. Great so back to you know, moving from your team to your customers so. Tell us a little bit. About how did you get your first 10 customers? So you went to hundred hundred people. You figured out there's a pain point there. It's a pressing pain point. I mean they were looking for somebody like that. Education was a problem, but finally you build the products. How do you get your first and customer?

So again, right, so I think starting a company in mid 30s has its advantages, networks right then starting in early 20s so went through all our contacts networks and the fact that we've been in the startup space for longer. We've been operators. We'll build the goodwill also by sharing. Our learnings in. The past, so all of. Them are happy to. Support us in that sense. In fact, if you realize we play in the in the very, very deep data play. So we need a lot of data to flow through us and even to share that while they might be friends of ours and really support us to expose you know TB's of data is not a joke, right? But they're willing to do that for us, so that's how we got the initial customers through referrals on our network. Because it's the product became better, right?

Yep, Yep.

And based on which, then we're able to go and tell to a customer he now pay. Money for it, so it became easier because I know the product would work, right? So that's how we started moving from the paid customers and I think a lot of investors support. Also we had will they connecting to their network. We're able to pitch to them, and because of which we got support in terms of customers as. Well so yeah.

So what's that one thing that brings customers to you, right? Like one? One major factor is it like they save a lot of money using your product, because now they're optimizing their spend. Or is it them adopting to products? Because now they know that who's using who's not using and if. It aligns to the mission critical objectives that they have of the organization. They make people use, so what's it one thing that's driving people?

So what we? Realize is today we educate them on the problem. The first thing is OK, we never thought about the problem.

OK.

So you're saying there is a solution to it? Tell me how it works so they're willing to do so. What we do something called a free SaaS audit.

OK.

OK, right, we say no money. Don't pay us any money. We'll do an audit for you, so it's like the master health checkup, right?

Right?

I do it for your body and I say, hey. Joseph, you're great, but guess for a couple of issues at your end, but I can help you solve it so you.

Right?

You would. Just naturally go ahead and say, OK, tell me what you can do right? So I think that's what happens with most of our prospects. We tell them what's in the landscape for free. No questions asked when they. See the report be present and how we can help them they. Then they sign up. So that's an easier way to cut short the sales cycle and tell them what's in it in their own environment, free and then convert them to paying customers so people. Come to us for. Cost reduction, sometimes more importantly for even managing the renewal calendar for sales renewals and even for security compliance, people buy for different reasons.

True, true.

So yeah.

Hey great really nice. So with customers, now you're signing up customers, all of it's going really great and easy, and it's now smoothing off. But when was the moment where you, as a founding team, had a moment of Epiphany where you said, hey, I think we feel that what we are set out to do is really getting validated because? Of these, these things are probably could be a movement. It could be different movements together, but any stories like that that could really like help our audience like learn a little bit about you know how you went to the whole journey.

Sure, so I think I think normally for me personally, that I can talk about personally is to me ideas have to be simple when you have to explain.

Right?

To someone, right?

MM.

So I say anything has to pass through me the product, right? Because I'm the dumb proof test.

Right?

If you understand the product features anybody else can understand. Right, I don't want technology jogging to me right.

I know, right?

So when we started the idea and I was making a move with my family from Singapore to India, right? It's obviously people saying are you out of. Your mind so to me. I knew you were on to something when I explained it to my dad. My dad is a 65 year old and he's a doctor.

Caught it.

Your doctor, you know what happens, right? You disregard tech because you thinking about everything.

Right, that's how. OK.

My dad was. And so to explain to me, I just had to explain it very simply.

Right?

I couldn't have told whatever I told you, right? So the way I explained to him, Joseph is when electricity. Powered up the world. Having an equivalent meter to measure was not a luxury but a necessity.

Right?

Similarly, as software power up the businesses throughout the world and more so post pandemic then having an equal and meter to them measure on what's happening in the software environment becomes a necessary luxury today, nobody knows that. But I know it. That's what I'm going to set out to build. My dad says hi. If it's like the meat there, I'm sure people would want it, so I think you're on to something. Good luck building approval that. I needed right and everybody that I spoke to my uncle and Aunt, family members, everybody understood in less than 30. Seconds when I explain idea less than 30 seconds, it's. Right and today most of our pitch happens in 15 minutes and the customer decides whether or not in the next 15 minutes. It's good I can do the volume and with more volumes I get more success and. That's how you build the company.

Wow wow, I mean this is. This is really nice. I mean this is like a a lesson in. Narrative building itself, right? So a lot of times I think when you when Founders set out to build narratives, they want to do a whole big exercise and and and kind of build authority with those. Flowery words, and Add all of those jargons and make it look big. Like probably add hyper and all of that stuff right to the to the whole pitch. But I think so true, right? I mean if you can help people understand what you're really essentially doing, I think people I mean if they get it. I mean it's nothing like it, right? That's what it's all about. End of the day, that's a great narrative right there, right? They get it. Really, really amazing, so that that that was your validation point so quickly. Have you raised any funds and if so, what is the process? Did you use a cap table for it? And so how did you go about doing that?

So we raise funding searam so early this year in Jan 2020-2021. Yeah, sorry, I forget the number of years, what years we. Are entering right thing? I don't think I have to apologize for that. Everybody's confused right so?

Right?

Jan this year is when we raised $2,000,000 seed round right from India, partners and Kalaari Capital.

Hey nice.

So when we set out a race it was pre product in a way, right? But I think it was based on the team and what the idea we. Had what our execution is.

Right?

Our initial thought process and the basic product also was in place as well. That's how we raised up the initial. Running around and we raised it based on what we set out to build. So people said why not? Half a mill. Why not one mill? Why not whatever? But we set out to build 2 mill? We when we raised it was even before the whole slurry of investment is happening. Currently around us, right? But we raised that based on what we want to build and how long we.

Right?

Want to have the runway? For so that's how we decided to do it. And and when we when we began, we didn't even know how much or how the whole CAP table. Honestly, it works, right? If I say I'm an expert, no, that's wrong. Definitely, it wasn't, but a lot of people to help us out. Thankfully I think. There are lot of proven founders who we were in touch with, so they gave a lot of insight on. How to think? About this right where you should think big where you should not pen in pitch, etc. So that gave us a good insight into constructing. The CAP table itself. And our investor is supported also because the end of the day they don't want founders lose a lot. Then what's the point in in, in the hard work they're gonna put right? So I think today whole founder, investor equation is also pretty healthy. In the ecosystem. So we were able to go with the CAP table that made everyone happy.

Hey, that's great. So are you likely to raise in the future, and if so, what are the macro factors at play?

We will rise in the future, right? Again, timing everything is yet to be finalized.

Got it.

Macro factor is simple. I think users of software is not going down. Everybody's realized that and usage of SaaS is not going down. As well, right so? And also interesting like I say. Is SaaS has finally made software better? After two. Until then, software was expensive, clunky, and it hands a few, so I think anything. So I, you know, explain to some of my customers I. Tell them that. E-commerce moment to commerce is how SaaS is to software. I think it's not going away, which means the macroeconomic trends are in complete flavor of what we're trying to build for. And by 2030.

Right?

People expecting at least enterprise software. Value itself is gonna be trillion dollars conservatively. And to manage a trillion dollars you need a system of record. That's what we're building.

Yep Yep, awesome awesome and so what's the future of Zuri and where are you guys heading right now? I mean, how does 2021 and 2022 look for you short term and long term?

It looks fantastic for us, right? I think a great reception. I think what we're aiming to do right now is to build for the US market. I think that's where a real success lies, which is still in the early stages for us today. Most of our customers are from Asia, of course, because the trust we've built they come and. It works for us. But I think our scalability and long term growth we're hedging clearly in the US because in the US it's a mature problem. We've already used a ton of software, but in Asia we realize probably Salesforce set its foot in Asia, just probably a few years ago, right? So unless Salesforce work day, ServiceNow, the giants of SaaS? Unless they put their full force in Asia, Asia won't be a great. Market for us personally. Right, which I tend to think will happen in two to three years anyways, so I think our success for the long term lies in terms of our execution in the US market. How we? And that's what a long term prospects lie on. But for short term, we're. Very, very well poised for. The growth in Asia and. Tad bit in the US as well.

Hey great so I have a quick rapid 5 for you see those so just to get to know you as a as a person as a founder right? So question number one is a book that you're reading a book or a blog? You're reading right now.

Book obviously awesome, by April Dunford.

Sorry, I didn't get that obviously awesome, obviously. OK, awesome. Great and is it a CEO? You're following us studying.

I studied a lot about Jeff Bezo's principles achieved and we implemented a lot at Judy as we started.

OK. Anything that's like like with you.

Yeah, so important thing that becomes how many people would have remembered that? I think what stuck with me is every department should talk through APIs.

OK.

Right, so everything that we do at slurry today should be thought like an API, which means you don't have to create everything from ground up, right? Think of it like an API, just easy to push it out and get started with, and that's how our entire teams talk to each other today.

Hey, that's really. And the third question is, what's your favorite?

Online SaaS app online SaaS app? I think Grammarly.

OK interesting one. OK. And how many hours of sleep do you catch say though?

That's a tough one. So as long as the wife doesn't hear this podcast, then I can say 8 hours, but. No, the answer is 6 OK.

And in situation marriage. Single kids OK.

Married married in with a 3 year old.

Hey nice nice nice nice. So the last question to end this. Whole podcast is hey, what's something that you wish that you knew when you were 20 years old? So today we have to go back and have a conversation with 20 year old, say what? Would he say?

Always play in. An area where the market is large.

OK.

Right, so this comes with personal experience as well.

So I think you earlier.

Worked in certain industries which you know would. Not grow, but just got. Stuck there. But I think I saw the software boom happening long time ago, but I. Never made the move. I'm glad to I'm playing an area which is trillion dollar market value by in 10 years which is a space to be in. So always play in. An area that's large.

Hey great, it's really nice chatting with you Sir. I mean there's a lot of points that I could pick from the whole conversation, you know? What is interesting is that one of the things that I noted is that when you actually study people like it could be Phil Knight and Jeff Bezos. I think you actually look at, you know. Taking those those principles and then see how it is relevant to you, and then you probably also like build your own sub principles out of it. So I saw that over and over again, like the way you suggested. So that was something that really stuck with me. The second thing that really stuck with me is the way. Your hiring processes are. In place, so you hire to get things done as a gains to, you know, hiring people for the sake of hiring. I mean, it's such a simple thing to say, but especially when you're growing and you need to hire people, there's a lot at stake. It's difficult to do that, and it's amazing that you guys are doing that. And I like what you said. You understand you're complementing. Skill sets and you hired the superstars or next to you. I mean, it's it's. There's something really stuck. You know very well with me. The other thing was before you started out, you went and spoke to 100 companies, I mean. I mean, people do say that they do user interviews and all of that, but more so often I think somebody has been there, done that and then started a product that ratio against people who claim they do is very thin. The margins are very thin and but you guys have done it so. It's really brilliant also. The other thing that really. You know, was these two statements about? You know the powering of electric? See and metering it, and same way the world being powered by software and then having a way to actually analyze it. So I think that really stuck. I mean and that being understood by your dad and my wife is a doctor. So I do understand the conditions. I have it back at my home, right? Yep, so I mean I I totally get it and it's that that that actually build a lot of restaurants because such a simple thing that you actually were able to like, you know, think of, but it's such a powerful. It's profound because people get it. And I'm in great narrative, you know, building exercise that you guys have done and arrived at because you're making it so lucid and simple with what you're doing is, you know, actually it's complex, but you're making it sound simple, great, and also about I like the way you actually spoke about. Playing a larger field right and I think that's so so true because I think that gives you the length and the breadth of the spectrum to actually grow and do things in a whole different way. So I mean, a lot of learnings for me personally, with what you shared. Thanks so much for your time and looking forward to staying in touch.

Yeah, thanks you so thoroughly enjoyed this. I think very free flowing conversation I enjoyed as well. So thanks so much for doing this. I really look forward to hearing this once this out.

Great, so have a great weekend ahead and and we'll catch up soon.

Alright, thank you, have a good weekend.

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