AI Founders Podcast

Transcript

Welcome to the SaaS Founders podcast. If you're looking for raw, unfiltered, authentic insights stories and sass wisdom, then you've come to the right place. Go get your cofounders and peers and grab your favorite beverage and get ready to buckle up for an intuitive. And lively journey. TuneIn and hear discussions on the adventurous sass, gross journeys embarked by brave founders and leaders. And now your host Joseph Abraham.

Hi Sudhakar, welcome today to the SaaS Founders podcast. So nice to have you. It is really nice chatting up with you and getting to know about grow Max. I mean, I'm totally thrilled you know to learn about your story about how. You you know you. Know came and started this from a corporate background and I resonate with that because and I come from such a background as well. So we have a ritual and we want to start with asking you a favorite quote. But before that welcome to the show right?

Thank you so much.

You have a favorite quote and that's something that inspires and motivates you.

I have a very. Simple one like you know. I follow whatever be the change which you would wish to see in. The world like so.

Right?

They're coming from kind of a background. I always want to ensure that you know our customers get exactly what kind of. A change they. Require so pretty much. That's that's the direction. We've been going.

Awesome, so I mean, I think this is I feel if I'm right, this is by Gandhiji and I'd be changed.

Yeah, be the change you wish to see.

You know which? Yeah, which yeah great awesome so very quick question is what's the change that you wanted to see?

In the morning.

In the world that you're building right now, in Grove Max, right?

OK.

So what's the product all about and what does it do? What's the problem you're solving?

OK, so go go Max is a SaaS company. OK, we have been building a. B2B e-commerce. What it means is, you know, like you have manufacturers, you have wholesalers who are selling to their retailers and. Many customers pretty much a business to business transactions today which are happening using and we to see kind of our platforms wherein that it doesn't have most of the features. What is required for a V2? So that's. The problem we are solving. With our product. And the enterprise product is not.

We have

As well as. We have a product which is mainly. For our wholesalers. Or smaller companies as well, you know. So direct consumer is the kind of. The product will help you take your product to the consumers directly with the help of your existing channel partners who will also be selling. On the platform.

MHM MHM Awesome, so I think that's a that's a larger vision that you have. You know which is to help somebody who's manufacturing go straight to the consumer. And it's it's today. It's hot that D2C space is hot, and so you're talking about that the same thing before we yeah.

Yeah correct. The only point which I want to make is, you know like manufacturers are built a great ecosystem of distributors and wholesalers.

Right?

What we are only saying is when you are hitting the DDC, you can still keep your existing partners ecosystem a larger audience.

Right?

It is not that we are saying directly hit. The customers true.

Absolutely true, so I know you're solving an interesting pain point, but. How did you all? Get started. Sounds like you discovered a. You know a pain point somewhere down the line. And how did you actually know? That there was a good business opportunity here, right? So if you can just quickly.

So if you look. At yeah, the Joseph, if you look at my background, you know like I come from. A will be selling. OK, so when I was selling my products through channel partners when I was working in Siemens.

Right, right?

So pretty much you know, like the problem, what we used to be facing is, you know we. We used to work with the direct customers. Through the channel partners and they used to struggle literally, reaching out to the market. So it all started with a kind of a. Simple question for. Me, you know, like why would we? Appoint a distributor. Because you want to reach a larger audience, larger geography and one single company cannot reach without a kind of a channel partners. So today is a digital world what we are talking about. So this means reaching out to customers digitally, which is absolutely possible. But the smaller distributors won't be able to spend hella lot of money like large enterprise players. So this means you can better reach digitally all your customers. At the same time, take. Along the existing partner ecosystem you've already built. This nobody has been doing so pretty much. That's that's a phase where we want to. Bring in a change.

Absolutely, absolutely. So I mean, your corporate job can also be an inspiration, because you'd see things in close quarters and you understand there's a pain point. There so quickly to switch gears and walk me through your other founder and the team that you're building, right?

Correct, correct?

So what's the team like and how did you build it?

OK, so it's very simple right? So my friend is actually my coworker, so he is the co-founder as well, and both of us used to work for almost 20 years, right name? So Jani is my Co founder. We founded this company in 2017, and we built A-Team very consciously. OK, so one thing which I completely believe believe even today is, you know, like without my team my. Product could not be this way right now. So starting from you.

Got it.

Know like we we don't give weightage to you know what is your graduation IIT coding skills? These kind of names are not actually the importance here, for you know, like with people is, you know the conviction. The interest will learn and you know curiosity to solve the problem. And the moment that the customer that the team is actually built exactly in this kind of features, what I was. Talking about right so? It's just a great team I have, so that's how. We've been solving our customers problems.

As well today.

Awesome, so I mean I love the whole like three things that you said, right? So learnability. And then you know curiosity to solve a problem and you should you. Should you know have. Kind of the connection, right? So I think I think that's that's that really really. Matters so quickly to switch gears. I know you built a great product and I mean you were talking about four years. You've been doing this in the first two years, went into building the product, but very quickly. Fast forward today. How many customers do you have? Right now, and I know you're targeting two different segments, right? And we were talking about it. So one is enterprises and one is SMBs, so you can mark it. But just to quickly. Get a sense of how many customers do you have at this point of time.

Interestingly, every SaaS company has been focusing on an SMC SMB and they start with building a first product with SMB OK. On the contrary, Gromacs built a product for enterprise and now we are hitting the market as well. So we have approximately 35 customers right now and out of. Around 5 to 6 customers are in the enterprise page OK, and rest of them are. All in the end.

Awesome and so building up, you know a pipeline right of customers is not easy. I mean you come from sales. You do understand that. It's easy if you have a big brand backing it. It's easy to do the sales and hit your quota, but how did you get your first 10 customers? I mean, I'm more interested to. Learn about that. And if you can share a story about.

Are your first customer, yeah?

OK.

See because most of the things are, you know, like being a founder, being in sales, what you will end. Up doing is, you know going to your own. Known something right? So of course, that's what happened in even in our own case, so so there. Is nothing to hide here, right? But the loan source gave us the opportunity as being a first customer and then you started hitting the rest of the customers. That's when you validate your product is actually working for your customers.

Awesome awesome.

So when we when we went to the customers like L and when. They have accepted your. Product when you went to the. Other customers. So basically when you start solving the problem for those customers who doesn't know you, right? So that's that's when you also know that your product is being validated by your customer.

True true true.

And 1st 10 customers has been definitely a kind of a very. Very, very tough walk. Through I wouldn't say it was so. Easy even, even though being a.

So, but only one thing which I will.

Tell you you know whenever we hit land or would be a better man or high sense we do to our customers and then told them you know, like Sudhakar and Yanni might die faster. OK, because we build a product. And that this product may exist or may not exist. We are being a. In a startup, sometimes there is a risk. OK, because this is a risk customer. Always look at you from most of the times whenever you are talking to a startup they think what happens if the startup doesn't exist after two years. Or three years. True, so we. Only gave them an assurance that the source code will be given 100% to you. You can run your business. And you manage. Everything OK, even though the company does not exist.

OK.

So it was a breakthrough. I can tell you like we still. Exist OK so. This is I would keep saying. I keep telling you challenge.

Because this is the first.

Word I told you when I when I had. A discussion with you because nowadays what we started doing is, you know we go back to customer and then put. This across in. You know you might have this problem because. Being an enterprise. Enterprise you don't want to invest your money in. A startup like us. But the point I'm trying? To make is you know this is the. Commitment we are willing to give you up.

Wow, I think I've never heard anybody say that honestly. I mean that I'll give you my source code and it's it's it's. It's crazy. Brilliant by the way because it's be risking the whole proposition straight off, I mean.

Because if I don't exist, if I don't build that product then what? What do? I do with this code, right so? Literally, I can say anything so.

Right?

It is as good as you know. Open sourcing the. Product to our cush.

Absolutely, absolutely. So you're talking about, yeah, I'm also happy to open source my product, possibly in three to five.

Years then, so so that's. Also, wanting to go basically right so.

Yeah, wow, wow so I think it truly democratizing SAS. I mean, I mean, people talk about it, but I think you truly believe in it. I see that you're a believer.

Right?

Yeah, so otherwise you know it's very difficult for you to support your ecosystem so you know.

Sure, sure.

You cannot. We keep pumping in so much of crazy dollars into the company. To build your company. So we are by the way we are still. A bootstrapped startup.

So yeah, actually going to come to ask about it in like couple of questions, but yes, I mean I. Totally like that the. The preview of it now right now so.

Very quickly.

You know, Sudhakar so of building this. I mean, you're talking. About you know. Your customers who don't know you when this are using your product and you get feedback. It's amazing so. I want to actually. If you can share a moment of epiphany where you felt your business was truly validated right where you and your founder like the other founder, really felt, wow, I mean, we really are doing something really worthwhile. It's great to put our lives. Behind it, right? So any any moment like that?

Yeah, of course we have like you told. Me before right? So you go to your own known source of network and then you hit that first. When you go as a. But very quickly we. Realized you know, like this is not going to work for a long time, so it is not everybody knows this. You know, like it's not. It's a completely fact, but. You will have. To acquire it customer digitally right being a startup, being a direct to consumer kind of a product when we are building, we cannot be depending.

Right?

On only our network.

Yeah shortly.

So you have to go. Daily you have to go acquire your customers digitally, so that's what we did actually. OK, so when we acquired our first global customer and that too it is not a small deal. It is an enterprise deal for me today and then. Customer believed and trusted our product only because we were truthful to. Them whenever we had a discussion. And you won't believe we got our first payment. 80% of the payment he transferred to be offered.

Wow wow that's amazing, OK?

And the the point what you only made is, you know, like I have been discussing with multiple companies across and he was. Talking to Adam. As well, using their web sphere commerce for. Their commerce platform. And he tried, he tried to Shopify, he tried with Magento so literally. The platform and when we. Were discussing, you know he was asking continuously. A couple of questions. And then we were saying that you know, like I don't have it.

OK.

So, and I was never promising that it can be done in three days time or five days time or maybe 4 weeks. 10 weeks, you know I've been apparent. Saying that this is the product that we have, whatever we are asking, possibly it's going to take another three to six months for. Me to build. And if you are willing to work with me, I'm willing to work with you. We will deliver it for you, but this is the product right now. I have and I can give it to you tomorrow. And this is this is one thing which he liked being trustworthy and I'm being upfront.

Got it.

What is possible and what is not possible and he signed up the contract in a week. OK, but this customer was not actually cracking for a long time, so literally kind of, you know, like three or four months, we've been following up when we had this kind of a threat there talking and he closed the deal. And within a week he transferred 80% of the payment and then that's when we realized, you know, like we're doing. Definitely what is right.

Absolutely, I mean no denial about it. So I mean. Nothing like it, right? So I mean, people can talk about putting your money behind. The talk is what matters, and I think it's it's amazing. Yeah, I mean.

Yeah, because you build a product and customer is willing to pay and he is an unknown customer acquired digitally.

Wow, wow, yes, absolutely. I mean nothing like it, yes, so I think I think a lot of times founders fall into the trap that they have to. Please the audience appended to the audience and and whatever they're asking, you've got to keep saying yes, yes, yes. But I think you get caught in that whole web of lies and sometimes you can miss. The whole you know. That the the trust that the bridge that you're building, you know. You can just. Just straight away like you know, break the.

Exactly exactly, exactly because it helps when you are being a threat.

Yeah, yeah. True, true. So about building bridges not burning bridges absolutely. So your bootstrap us coming to that so quick question is are you?

OK.

Likely to raise in the future. And what are the macro factors that are playing? So I found it very interesting in the earlier. Chat that I was having with you, which. Is your kind of business is very unique and. That was amazing to hear that you've been able to bring some big logos in, and there's been some very interesting, you know sense of also like it moving to paying customers as well, right? So I do understand the factors, but what are the major macro factors that you see playing in the future, and what are you looking likely to raise?

So banks are bringing up we we have we have we bootstrapped the company. We definitely want to place the funds sooner or later. OK, because the way the currently we are growing it is not possible for us to continue to.

Right, right?

Grow at a slow, slow pace. And until you bring in a kind of a decent money to increase your. Marketing and sales expenses. It is not going to be possible surviving the. Way we are. OK, so we are looking what we're looking at is you know, like couple of deals which I want to ensure that it is all in the company so we are able to show the enterprise deals to the investors because in that direction we want confidence even for ourselves and for the.

Right, right?

So that we will be able to raise a decent amount of money, maybe $1,000,000 or $2,000,000. Kind of raise. Probably it's gonna help me accelerate rather not survive.

Right, absolutely absolutely. So I think I think that is definitely like, you know on the cards. I definitely see that because I do see that you have a great team and you have a great product. You also have a validation, so I do see that acceleration is the next game. I mean, I can't see anything missing out there, absolutely. So I'm going to come to a very interesting section, which is the rapid 5 sections, so I'm going to ask you questions.

So where?

Wherever I don't have. An answer I will say pause.

OK, these are these. Are easy questions, but these are more like just to help other other fellow founders to see like and understand you a little bit more right? So is there a book? Or a blog, or anything that you're reading right now that that's really helping you.

OK so I keep learning on a daily. Basis of course. It is not always a management study. But right now you would be surprised. Being a sales guy I'm learning about.

OK.

Nice nice.

And because we are moving, we are not moving like we already have a kind of micro services architecture which is going to scale and we want to build a commerce as a service to our customers and the API.

Right?

So headless. Commerce is what we already have been talking about to our customers. It's not particularly. I had to learn pretty much. This is what I've been doing, and interestingly, a couple of months back I was affected and forward. So that's when actually. I was really reading the book.

OK.

Which was Shiva. I really like. Amit yeah. So I not a management philosophy books, so pretty much that's it.

Absolutely awesome. So a sales guy reading about microservices and tech stuff, nice. To see that. So the second quick question is, is there is there a CEO or a leader that you're following are studying that that you like?

No, frankly speaking, I've been following more of. Our SaaS founders so. That's what I do, so it's nothing specific. One person, so pretty much I follow everybody. Especially the Indian SaaS ecosystem where have been seeing them as one of the. You know, like early birds who has all the knowledge and guidance so that we just follow them.

Right? Awesome and very quick thing back at at grow Max side. What's your favorite tool online tool or a SaaS tool that you use that you can't live without?

See frankly speaking, you know medium. There's something which I cannot live without.

Got it, got it, yeah.

So because a lot of stuff for people keep writing, whether it is. A paid blogs or maybe blogs I keep learning. Starts out of media.

So medium is on. Your phone I can very much. See that.

That's that's yeah, I should also subscribe to SAS industry now, so.

Yeah, we're free so you can subscribe.

No, no, I keep. Doing it that it's the thing you. Know you'll have to keep doing it.

Absolutely, absolutely. And this is a quick myth busting question. So how many hours of sleep do you get every night so?

Only around 5:00 to six hours is. It's not, you know, through night I do. I don't do it. All that stuff. Yeah, like if I sleep, I sleep very. Well, so I get a good sleep always. At 12:00 o'clock and around 6:30, I'm not so basically around six hours.

Absolutely I get it so.

Unlike unlike a typical staff founders. This leader with the two.

No, I think I think it's a myth by the no.

Hours 3 hours.

I think it's a big myth because I have interviewed so far, about 17 founders and all of them have told me I sleep over 6 hours or 8 hours and so I'm not really able to say. OK.

So lot went around, six is up.

Absolutely so in. Situation married single kids. I know you're married, you already told.

Married I'm married, have kids.

Me about it. Why yeah?

So being 40, you know when your kids are young and I want to prove is even at 40 you. Can be a. Founder of a Company, so yeah, absolutely not. I would say this is a middle age crisis.

Doing a startup. Crisis, nice way to put it, by the way. Great, so the last question I have for you is what's the one thing that you wish you knew when you were 20 years. Old, so to go. Back you know 20 years back and then go back to that Sudhakar and tell him something. What did you tell him?

It is it. Is only an exposure right? So when you work in a global optimizations, when you move around the world so. Of exposure in the learning which. You get, possibly you would have got. It early then. You could have accelerated whatever you're doing right now. So for example, I would have been happy if suppose I would have done what I'm doing right now, but. At the age of 35. Correct card so that that's the only exposure possibly.

Would have helped.

Accelerate of maybe? There is. No regret, but yeah. That would have been my only wish.

Got it so it's amazing to have have this chat with you and I think there are so many points that resonated with me, but that that the deepest one that resonated with me was you. Great truly democratizing your software. I mean that really like hit me hard because two things hit me hard. One was you are ready to give the source code away and the other thing that hit me hard was that you have a vision. Make it an open source. So I mean true to your call right of being a SAS founder. I mean a lot of times. People say a. Lot of things, but I think you're truly living it out really deeply. Resonated with me because you putting your whole life on the line, giving up a cushy corporate job to come in and do. This and so it's it's it's really nice to meet somebody like you so it's really nice chatting with you.

Hey thank you Sir. Thank you so much.

That was.

Thanks for reaching out and. It is a pleasure talking to you as well. So absolutely without you I. Would not have been sitting here and talking. And great chat actually. No, it's it's a good conversation.

You have.

While talking to you.

Same yeah, so looking forward to staying in touch and building you. Know this this strong. Bridge with you in the future as well so looking for it? Yeah, absolutely.

Thank you so much and same here.

Thank you, thank you.

Thank you.

Thanks for joining in today.

Right?

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