AI Founders Podcast

Transcript

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of this vast universe HOTAS today. Joseph Abraham, founder and CEO of SAS Industry and Uber Saga, has a virtual sit down with Ganesh Shankar, CEO and Co, founder of RF Ebio. Ganesh comes with a strong background in product management and today. Coverages this experience to drive excellence to RPI 's customers and employees alike. One among his many distinctions include winning the Ernst and Young Entrepreneur of the Year Award in 2020. And as to what RFP IO does? Well, they fundamentally help increase sales win rates for companies across the board by filling in a critical and often missing part of the sales process. Here are donation tools of discussing this and. A lot more enjoy.

Hi Ganesh, thank you so much for taking your time and joining us today in the SaaS Founders Podcast. It's it's really. Nice to have you. I enjoyed our conversation right before this podcast, in fact. There was a, you know. I just felt you know that I I went through a mini master class on you know category design and category creation. I mean, it's it's really really brilliant. Very refreshing the way you see things and your perspectives. So happy to have you on board today on our podcast.

Thanks Joseph for inviting me to SAS form with podcast on SaaS industry in. Our honored to be here and I've been following up you your podcast that's you are doing a wonderful job, thank. Right?

Thanks Ganesh, so I'm I'm going to dive straight into, you know. RFP IO. So before that how did this idea all you know start? I mean, what is what is the seed for this idea and how did it germinate and and if you can just let our our listeners know about? That it will be great.

Thank you, so happy to share.

Like I said.

Before we don't have any garage story like typical, you know dorm room story just truly out of our you know paying point that we have gone through, you know prior to starting out I was working for an enterprise software company as. A product manager. So I responded to. I remember the last day when I quit the job and I handed off my laptop to the IT person. I I didn't say anything about anything else. I said one folder is. There on my. Laptop that folder consists of 464 and 60 to RFP that I've responded. In the time that. I was there. Almost 8 years and it was working so I said hey this is the most important thing I. Can hand it off. Because there's a lot of you know knowledge about product, there's lot of winning so, but. A lot of manual work, Joseph, so similarly my 2 other co-owners Orphir was formed by. 33 of us. Mindanao Sundar, who's our current chief technology officer and Shankar who is our Chief Operating Officer? All 3 of us were company and then we also joined hands with our. You know VP of engineering money issues in India? Who's managing our Indian Indian team engineering team? So 4 of us were from the. Same company so. But if you. Look at we possess different skill set. Though you know I mean Indian sitting in. In the United States, people assume that I'm an engineer. I'm not an engineer, I did not. Do my engineering. So I did my computer science BSc Computer Science and then I did. My MBA started my career sales Rep but then now when we moved on to the technology I became a product manager. By the time I quit my. Job I was I was. And the associate director of parts. So that was my final. But being a product manager, you get pulled into many different directions because you are the subject matter expert of the product. Similarly, Sunder, who was my previous you know engineering manager, who was also managing security testing all those things he was managing Shankar. Our current CEO was managing implementation programs for the company that we all work or and Manisha 's. Engineering, So what happened is in the sales. Team, I don't know if the listeners will know our PR 's are very similar to in our world. In India people are tender. You know, we focus on people who respond to tenders to respond to RFP. That's where we started and which? Is the sales teams. So when my sales team got. Of P, What they will do is they will divide that into 3 or 4 pieces. OK, anything related to pricing sales. We will say, OK, we will take care of it. Anything related to project. They will pass it on to me and say hey Ganesh can you fill this anything? Tell it to engineering they will pass it on to Sundar Sundar. Can you please finish this? Anything mentation training? Follow up support post. Sales support. They will pass it on to Shankar each one. Of us. Have to Google if you imagine right. If it is a Word document all the way the Word document is divided into 4 different. Documents so hey, it gets one. Sundar gets one, Shankar gets one. The salesperson, you know. If it's Jane, she gets one. So all 4 documents are slow. Imagine as simple as if I'm following times new Roman. Sundar follows aerial Shankar. Follow in Verdana and you know, and Jane follows a different bullet. Imagine all of a sudden Jane this hey I'm Jane is going crazy. Oh man, now I would sit and consolidate all these documents. Then I have to normalize it. How to send this? You know differently looking document so that I can share a consistent document the customer, so it's a lot of manual work in in everything, so that's where. We saw an. Inefficiency getting created in every step of the. So we we actually. You know, looked at different parts to solve the problem for ourselves as an employee you. Know Sundar shankaran We are evaluating some options to see how can we streamline this inefficient process for ourselves so that our primary job as a product manager does not get affected. I estimated somewhere between 30 to 35 percentage of my time as a product manager was spent on pre sales activities like filling out security questions, filling out our fees, helping sales prepare a document. So lot of my time was spent so we're trying to automate that. So that's when we looked at in the mark. What we came was, you know there. Was not a. Lot of options out there. But that that this is back in 2015, so we decided to dig deeper into the space and we decided to see if there's anything we could, every time. Each one of us come back and say hey, there's nothing available, so Sundar Shankar and I decided to take the reins on our own hand in in 2015. Why? Mid 15 we started, you know, ideating this process and we were fortunate enough to support it by a couple of Indian investors and then almost 6 years into the business. So we are almost 350 employees worldwide. We have. 3 different operations in 3 different continents already, so that good story in just 6 years. So yeah, that's that's the I don't know how we started. You know?

Awesome so 6 good years and you're right. Now you know progressing so the the the quick question I had is and also for our listeners. I mean I, I love the introduction and how you know you you unravel the whole origin story, but in in very specific terms, what's your product? All about who? Is it for and what does it do right? If you can just very quickly and briefly share. I don't understand the. Request for proposal software, but what else? The specific things that it does and who's. For and you know what does it. Specifically, you know do.

So until June of last year, we were primarily focused on one side of RFP, winning when I when the RFP, you know workflow, there is always buying side buyer who's trying to buy something issues on our fee as a selling who responds to a lot of people you know selling. Who are trying to sell their product? Or service, so until of June we were 100% focused. On the selling side. You know, so I'm our I know our ideal customers are, you know people. Pre sales team. Proposal manager we piece of sales VP of Marketing who are putting together this or fees to submit to the customers. So for them what we do is we actually automate the whole. You know, like I said, right in the example that I gave before or like Word document getting divided into 5 pieces and then you don't need to do that when the moment you get an RFP or Security question and you can load that into the system of RBI. Or if you. Need to understand the questionnaire that you receive from your customer and then if you break it down into multiple sections. Questions in in a web form you don't need to deal with word or Excel anymore so it will translate into the form. So then you can easily assign. OK. I said, instead of sending them an email. With a smaller Word document you can say hey. These are the sections you know, product, road, map or security technology section goes to XYZ or or chain or Joe. You can assign that to them and and you can assign a different section to a different person. I can own certain section so. It's all done the web application, so there's no sharing of document need to be done and there is. No email, it's all done. In a centralized way, and then when. Everything completes it. Then let's assume when Jane completes her piece of work. I will get an alert. OK, Jane completed her and let's assume joke complete. So I get another. A sales Rep was trying to coordinate all I could do is to the cotton system can ask me, hey, do you want to normalize these things? I can say I want section section headers to be. Other font size and then I want this to be. You know in this font one click, it's normalizes it and I want this content to be in this format. Not only that, that is for me, it's easy to one for the for the subject matter experts, right? When you assign certain sections to them. We have an artificial intelligence engine into the system. You, let's assume. They are asking about your product overview. OK, the moment you click on the question system will be able to recommend what could be the best possible answer for that question. Comment all you have to do is just click of a button. It gets applied to the current arc that you're work. No, so you don't need to. Think a create or answer every time or copy and paste it where where you are risking old data. So here when I say recommendation engine brings up that content is being recommended by our engine based on where it's not just keywords. You know how many times this piece of content is being. Used in the past. How many times it has ended up in a winning off pee versus losing up with. There's so much of intelligence goes into the engine to make the recommendation like Google recommendation like when you search for so the top most result is most relevant. We we follow what relevancy ranking. So the more you can go down the relevancy goes down but again you have the option to pick one versus the other so that is that is the benefit for the subject matter experts. The benefit for the sales team or the person. Who's trying to? Facilitate all these teams or pre sales engineers or sales engineer. Some companies have proposal managers. Who are trying to facilitate the subject matter? Expert content right? You know all those people get benefited on their own work. That is one product we now in June of last year. We acquired a business called RFP 360 which has also product for the procurement. So now we can facilitate asking. The questions to the vendors.

So there is.

A product for. You know, gathering you know formulating the questions. Or, you know, question you. Know creating a questionnaire can be down North 360. Responding to the questionnaire why vendors can be facilitated and so we. Have a platform. That facilitates both buy side and sell side, so both buyers and sellers are meeting on the same platform.

So that.

Great, so you saw the pain point from close quarters you decided to do something about it. I I love the whole idea that you know, painstaking process to put the whole thing together. You know, in the in the previous organization you observed that this is also not your problem. Your colleagues face the same thing you decided to do something about it. And you definitely went and built, you know, a solution which isn't available in the market.

Now how did you?

Really like come to a point of validation that you. Felt hey I. Think what you're building, you know is. Really, really good. So take us through that whole moment of epiphany. If you had a moment of epiphany, or you know a moment where you felt. Wow, this is a moment of validation and you really felt you on the right right journey.

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Episode you know a moment where you felt? Wow, this is a moment of validation. And you really felt you on the right right journey.

Yeah, I think it is not one particular point, Joseph. I think my my all the realization you know, if you look at it right. Like I said, the. Day last. Handed off my. Laptop we respond. I actually responded to 460 plus hour rupees myself. This is just. Me in getting. There's a lot of party that I'm not even getting involved at all, so. There are other. Documents right so, but similarly similar triangle. One thing we were very clear, we did not assume. The pain point that we have is the pain point everybody is having. Yes, we have the pain point so we did not. We did not sound like we are the experts in what we know on day one. What we ended up doing is we spoke so many because I've worked with so many sales reps and sales teams and over the over the period of years. So I was able to validate that. The idea. But the very evident, you know, time and again you know you know you would not imagine you know how well what? We know was probably. Probably closer to 50% of the product today. You know what we have gathered from these user feedbacks? Customer Advisory Board. You know this is this, is it? It it took the part to a whole different. Level but to start. With we we were very clear we should not assume that that you know I always say this to to some of the founders who I I I mentor today, don't assume your problem is the universal problem. You know, I think that is not the right way to look at. Yes, we have the experience. We have our own hands on our people, but we never assume this is the. Problem that everybody has, so we validated it and then you know and we were able to iterate. The power and then we. Came to a conclusion. OK, we this was. The most painful process in the whole. Problem then because. When you, when you when you become a. Founder of SAS company you you have lot of ideas right you know but it is important for you to focus on certain things. What we did at that time, we picked one workflow of dealing with Excel based off it. That's the only thing today we support many different formats. So when we started out we said OK, it was very evident people felt. Dealing with Excel was. So much harder. So we said, OK, we're going to solve that and we made it as a mission at that time. Even till then we have the best solution to solve that problem. Where day one when we lost that and we said OK, when a customer gets an RFP document in. An excel format. We should be the best in class to solve or import that document into our system. And we did that and we still do that. And we in fact how we did that was, you know, we spent 334 nights we did not sleep. You know it's I'm proud to call. We even fact. They did that.

Classes, but now a.

Lot of lot of our competition uses. The process we. Are very you. Know happier because. End of the day adds value to the customer. It makes the process simpler. But today a lot of our, you know, even we, their company, that we acquired our 360 had a same process, because I can guarantee, say, you know the certain marks, that you do the certain ways you do. We did not look from any any inspection. It is just ask breaking your head. How can we pass? But when we validated. It and this whole thing came true when our when we when our first customer call and said. Hey, we saw a small. Video that you guys have we. I think this can solve our problem. Can we? Can we try it and it became an in a moment? OK, this is. True people are looking for a solution so. And then 34 days later, the customer actually swiped the card and they started using the product. It no, it was. That that that moment. We felt OK. True, we are getting, you know serious we are we are doing something really meaningful. That's the IT is in 202016. Our first paying customer came on board on June 16. 2016 so fancy number is 2 number. 61616 was the date we signed up our first customer today. We're almost a 14 2000 customers so we have not mom and pop shops today. Have almost 15 of Fortune 100 companies in the platform almost 50 plus Fortune 1000 companies. A lot of SAS companies. A lot of Indian companies whom we are All in all fresh world chart. We work fix they use. Of the IO this this is a very proud.

Awesome, so very very quick question that I had a follow up to. That is like how did. You get your. First 10 to. 50 customers like crossing the chasm is is difficult. I do understand you had a, you know a good breakthrough. You understood. You spoke to a lot of users and you had an access to. That so. Because I mean, did your stint at the previous organization help you to get your early customers? You know far easily than than what it would have been. I mean, just take us through that journey as well.

Yeah, yeah, like I said, you know, between the 3 of us, I am the sales guy. You know, it was my responsibility before we started hiring. Our sales team is my responsibility. Maybe first. 1520 Plus customer was brought on by me. You know who would be a better, you know seller than founders? Like you know, I think we I brought in, you know first that you know but the the. Way we brought. In this like you said, I. Was lucky enough. I was fortunate enough to. Worked with a lot of great sales. Reps in the past because as a product manager. You know you get. To work with the sales Rep. People move to different companies, different organizations at different points. I was able to maintain that relationship and that's why I say don't break bridge right now. You know, I've never you know the world is so small. You know somewhere. Someday some point of time something will be needed. So just be careful on maintaining the relationship. OK, you don't. Need to you. Know smooth stop every. I'm just, you know, maintain a good relationship with people you know formally. You're you're associating someday it will come and help in handy. I think it true in. Our case, people who have interacted with me in the. Past at some point. Even though they are not decision, they were not. A decision makers. They were able to pass on. My reference to say hey hey, this is a known person. I've known him before. And he is a. Wonderful individual, I know him on the floor how he worked hard. Some some kind words when they pass on, right? You know reference. Goes along right. That's how I. Think you know? In fact, you know the first customer I told you, right? It it how it happened is we. I was introduced by my ex colleague to. I mean we have that something called Technology Association of Art. In it's like a it's. Like a forum, it's a nonprofit organization in Oregon where it is part of the company. So the President of that company, he he. He writes articles in the local journal and Portal Journal. He he wrote a small article about. And that article was read by somebody in our first customer. They went to a website and saw. That again, if. You look at how I got connected. If that article again I don't know, would have still made it, but I think that was the breakthrough. But that breakthrough happened because that was the first thing the moment we started see. The market validation really comes up. We had customers before that also. Those are customers on my first. Circle, you know your friends and you know this is the first time we are validating outside of your comfort zone outside of your social zone. The 3rd customer, right? You know you're talking about that is when the rubber meets are over. You know, I truly feel the products gets traction the moment you start signing up. People whom you don't know. You don't even speak and spoken to them in the past, so that's when the the the the moment. Starts and you. Know first maybe 1520 customers. That's how we brought in and I did. You know, it's funny, you know, and then we started realizing 111 of the meetings I was talking to my mentor. I think I was naive. During that time, but I immediately changed the. That meant to say. You got to be in front of customer. Ohh, and I at the moment they say the reason why I say I'm not as naive is oh, if I know that I would be. I would be simply. Making it yeah it was. So powerful statement that he made. I think that kind of. You know, I. I I felt a cliche. At that moment, but when I was driving home from it was a dinner and that dinner. Vinesh and I. Was driving home. What what does it mean when he said you have to be in front of customer where they're looking for OK? What does it mean I came home? That day night I. Took my laptop and I searched for RFP software because immediately my mind as an RFP, buy software buying person. What do I do? I go and search in Google, nothing came up. OK, that is the moment, OK? And you know. It doesn't mean that everybody has the same thing.

Imagine you are.

An app company you have to. Be in App Store. You have to. If you are here for app, you have to be on site for you. Depends on where your customer understanding where your customer is looking is so important. So that's when we realized, OK, this is. This makes sense, you know. And you know sometimes you have to be in an event. Sometimes you have to be in front of. Where your customers. Are looking for. Your products like that, so every. Product is not does not fit well for. Google so you. Have to identify where your customers looking for. So that is the kind of moment we and then we started spending a lot of energy into cotton marketing. We did not hire our sales team. First, we hired our content person first. Our marketing team first. So we started pouring lot of our energy into that so you know to maintain the SEO ranking to maintain the content we. The educated customers what an software is all about, because vacuum there is nothing, so that's that's where I would say looking at, you know it is important to understand where your customers looking for it is very cliche. Everybody can say. Oh, if I know. Go deeper, understand where your customers are looking for is the most important thing you know as software Congress can do.

Wow, that's that's a value bomb right there, right? So I I. Was going through a site and I was amazed. Like you have an RFP Pio University, you have a slack group. You know that supports. You know people and it's it's brilliant. Like what you've been doing right in in instead of short span. I'm gonna take a quick moment because I loved our conversation before this. You know the recording which is on on the lines of creating a category right is this struggle because what you're trying to solve is totally different and I love what you just shared. You know which is about people placing in the proposal, you know, management space. Well, you are not assistant percent of what you were so.

How do you actually?

You know, muster your courage to go build a category, right? So like what was the driving force behind that? How was this like a necessity and need that that drove that?

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Right?

Now back to the episode.

What was the driving force behind that? How was this like a necessity and need that that drove that?

Yeah, again you know cat category creation is being spoken by many different people and you know. It also there is. There is a myth, or you have to create a category. You don't have to unless you really need and on category creation is. A very tiring, very expensive, very educational process that you have to go through. And if you are not ready for that, don't buy it. That's my instance, but for us it actually occurred, right? You know? Back in 2016 when we started our Pio, you know company. You know a lot of the the public forums or you know. The so called review sites categorized as a proposal management software proposal management software is good if I look into Rubio probably 10% of what we do. It's good software. If you're a freelancer and if you want. To send out. A nicely looking proposal to your prospect. You don't have time to develop the those are applications that could help you to create that. It's it's a one on one. What you do is much beyond we can do that too. But what we do is content creation, content management, workflow compliance, governance of content. There's so much of. Back and things. So what we started doing in 2017 18 is we started educating the market about the software you know today you know and talk to say we are the market leading software in in this category of software and now we have a category for the software. You know plan. Software review platform like G 2 Crowd there are there is something called the software security, but what we realized in 1819 times it is much bigger. Now it is again our customers. The way we we saw our customer use. Our product was much bigger than what we originally envision, right? You know the the reason. Why I say? That is the content that is curated for our. Peace is now being used and consumed for so many different use cases. As simple as responding to an email to a prospect. If you need to put in the right content, they are they are using the cotton that is in our PIO because they feel that is the most authentic, most accurate, most compliant content that they can use because that is coming from the so-called SMEs. For now, which they don't want to risk it so they're confident we. Possess is the. Most critical content. They are repurposing their content for other use cases. The category that now. We are evangelizing is response management. How can you, when I say you you your frontline teams, it could be supported. It could be sales. It could be account management, it could be anybody who's communicating the content of your organization to the outside world stakeholders where they need to be compliant. They can use our software and that is what I'm calling responsibly respond right? How? Where do you need responsiveness to respond? That content exists? Not there, so we see an opportunity. To educate the market in a way they can use our fair to respond to any sort of such required. Then it could be our pay security questionnaires, emails, anything that they want to respond to the outside world. We have the content.

Got it, I think. I think it will make me fall in love with out of out of Pio because I mean I. I mean, you're very passionate about it and this is just rubbing off on me, right? I mean, I really love the way you've been able to build all of. This and switching gears here. So lovely you. You saw a problem. You went solo. And got customers and and were able to, like you know, pioneer and create a category and it's it's. It's amazing to see all these accomplishments. Now let's talk a little bit about like. I mean you. You mentioned that you had a couple of Angel investors right in the beginning, helping you. So how was the funding journey? Been and what are the challenges that you had and how? How? How did you raise funding? And and so on so forth.

Yeah, I. I think a lot of. You know buses going around funding. You know, but truly speaking for us, you know. The 3 of. Us who co-founded? None of us are born on Earth. None of us came. Up with a. Big Bang so you know I was living. Off my paycheck. To paycheck, you know, you know, but we. Felt an opportunity to create. We approach a couple of Angel investors. You know that is the only time really. We really pitched into, you know, the investors to say hey. After that I was fortunate enough, fortunate enough.

And then.

Do they call this business as a customer funded business? You know? 2 week thinking so you know my. My recommendation is you know that a lot of noise and buzz going around funding. The best thing. That could happen for a business is customer funding. When I say customer funding is not about their funding to your growth, buy subscription. The most most efficient way. To run your business and grow your business, I think we were fortunate. Enough to do. That, but when we also did Series A back in 20. 18 when we brought in K one, it was not for funding requirement we we didn't bring them for funding. Needs to turn out day-to-day operations. It was mainly for strategic. I think it was either Microsoft or Visa at that time when we saw 2016 2018. They were asking you this real company, I'm. Just going to sustain. This thing what is you know it kind of? On us and see we wanted a. Big banner behind. Us we said, OK, we want to do this so we brought in K one and at that time we we gave a good exit to all these small we gave exit to 11 small invest. There's you know in in in a matter of 15 months and and I, I think investors were very happy on. The things that. They got and. We were happy because we were able to trade them for a bigger investor. Much bigger profile. It gave us a good strong presence in the market today. Nobody is asking our financials, we are only sending them hey, we are backed by cave one here. It kept so many different ways. And it was very strategic for us to.

Awesome, awesome great. So I just want to ask you like you know couple couple more questions and I'm going to get into the fun part which is the rapid fire round right? So just just one quick question right? And that that's that's lingering on my mind is that. What's your favorite metric on an everyday basis? Ganesh like what? What do you, what, what is that one thing that you measure?

Yeah, so one thing I measure in terms of you know it's. I rigorously see NPS. Net Promoter score of our customers, how it's in one leading indicator how your customers are using your power. I also I also in again I don't think every company can do this, so I was fortunate enough. One day I I randomly went into LinkedIn. For some reason I was looking at, I searched for word raffio on LinkedIn and I went to the job section to see how many job. It was super. Even today morning I looked at. It there are 252 jobs that. Are in LinkedIn today.

That has word.

Rpio, in their job description.

Out of that only.

20 of that has been posted by offer for our own requirement. If I take that more than 200 jobs or or on the market today, who are looking for our experience? I feel really proud how many companies can claim in less than 6 years where customers are looking for our of your experience, right? You know how many companies? Claim that you know this. This is like no. These are company or you look for sales force experience you look for Oracle. It is very similar moment in I I. See that you. Know it also creates a brand equity in in the state we are trying to create, not only an ecosystem we are trying to create. Jobs in you know? In the ecosystem in our customer base you know I see like you said, we have a slack channel. I see every single day job posing. Hey we are looking for. Proposal manager we are looking for sales engineer who have this experience of our. It's amazing to see how this snowball effect. You know, you know when I first. Saw it with 3 jobs. They were all 200 and something jobs. It's the, it's the. It's the, it's the moment that we, we all celebrate and I think. I'm very proud of that. So that's that's another material I usually see. It may not be everything but NPS, and you know of course in our revenue is another important metric in pipeline if you ask me. Top one NPS and I also see this in how many? How many customers are looking for our fair experience, so that's some other metric I usually look.

Awesome so I'm just. Going to go to the rapid fire. Round and so. Here your 5 rapid fire questions, right? So quick responses. Let's go. I know you're really far away, but I know you're travelling to India. So when you are here, when we meet, I'll give you the gift hamper, right? So if you do well, right? There's there's a if you know. Yeah, that's OK. Here, right so. So quickly, Ganesh, what's your? You know favorite Gadget at this point of time?

My iPhone.

Your iPhone OK? And is there a book or a show that you're watching or reading at this given point of time?

Play bigger, bigger.

Play bigger OK by Christopher Lockheed.

Yeah, no, I'll Madam.

Hold on.

So this is.

Really, if you're really serious about category creation, this.

Category creation absolutely absolutely. I think Christopher Nolan also. Is part of the the authors one of the?

Yeah, first first of all like. You get great.

Yes yeah, absolutely great and.

What's your favorite SaaS tool?

Salesforce OK, how many hours of sleep do you get every?

It's controversial. It could be as a founder. Do I get to? Sleep no I. Usually maintain about 7 to 8. Hours sleep.

Awesome, awesome. And how's pandemic really changed your life?

I was never work from home person, but I think now I'm working from home. I thought I will never adopt but looks like you know I'm good in adopting certain things. So yeah, it's It's amazing how world have changed in a matter of 2 years and how it's devastating to see. That, but the translation as a human being, evolution that you see in this period was, you know, I don't think any you know any of the. At least in our life, I don't think you will be able. To see this. But you're lucky enough to see the translation in front of our eyes. How this changed? So if I have to take the whole pandemic in a devastating situation, if I have to take one silver line, how humans have evolved in working room mode? You know maintaining social distance and and maintaining that is something you know I I never thought I would experience in my life and I'm grateful for.

Wow, so whenever the rapid fire that you did really, really well, so I'm going to like give you a gift hamper. So this is the last question for the. For the podcast we're wrapping up here. So what's that one thing that you wish you knew when you're 20 years old?

My current Co founders I would have.

Good good phone this got. It got it got it. Great, so it was very nice chatting with you Ganesh. In fact I I lost track of time. I mean, I usually I'm, you know, very observant, but this is fun. Like chatting with you and and and learning, I mean there's a lot of things that I was learning. Taking down notes as well, I love the whole idea of how you've. Been creating. This whole category thing? I mean, that's that really gripped me about this whole idea of response management system and so and so forth. And it's really, really nice to like, you know, have have this whole conversation with you, so looking for staying in touch. Thank you so much for your time.

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